James Smith NRI, Darel Snyder PSI group review: Took their advice and lost $65,000! 24

Brycen Snyder, Dishonest === Darel Snyder not totally forthcoming and dishonest. Scammers that are only interested in the almighty dollar

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I went to the 3 day free seminar. Fell for the assertion they could turn my 15K into, "a fortune". I signed up for the cash flow seminar=$3995. For whatever reason, a few days later I was, then "selected" to be in their special program to be mentored, one on one, for the low price of 7K, which would be for real estate training. One, this so called program is really nothing more than a couple of days to make sure the mark actually can pay the 7K required. I've talked to a few people, who are actually some of the hired guns the James Smith Company employs, and they were unaware of this program. One Kerry Lucas did at first pretend he was going to figure this out for me, but in reality only wanted to sell his program, which he asserted, "was much cheaper than I had paid". I'm looking for as many individuals as I can to start a class action lawsuit against this company. I have much more information, and a longer list of complaints, than I want to type right now. If you have found this post and are wondering about JSC, I can tell you some things. Please contact me at mcglyph@gmail.com soonest. Stay away from the James Smith Company, do not buy into the very high priced program they offer, as there are no refunds, and a man named Nate Day is seemingly for me at least the only one I can work things out with. If you want to be successful, the tools are out there, you don't need to go to this company for anything. If you want training in real estate save your 10K or whatever, and find a real estate club (they are every where). My coach had me do this exact thing, go to a real estate club, that was his first pearl of advice. The people at the real estate club told me I should have saved my money. Do not be like me, please look elsewhere for training.

I'm always amazed that people can not see James for what he is, he is a salesman, that's it, he sells real estate training. If he could make money in real estate investing like he says, then why does he spend 300 days a year on the road selling people into his training programs. He just loves the daily travel, going from one hotel to another, sounds like a great life for someone who could make money so easy with his talents in the real estate market. In fact he has his sons doing the same as him, they sell real estate training. The James Smith family does not make their money on real estate investing they make their money on selling you the training. They can not make as much any other way, period. James make over 1 million+ a year on selling his training, he will tell you that you can make a ton in real estate but the reality is he can not himself. Ask him to show you his tax returns for the last 5 years, better yet, ask his sons to show their tax returns, this family does not make 10% of their income in real estate. He is pretty smart, he knows how to sell training but it does not work for him. I'm sure it will work for you, good luck.

I attended the 3-day financial success seminar in San Diego last week, and I was completely blown away. I have 13 pages of notes, and have already made 4 offers on investment properties using the knowledge I gained. I think it is in everyone's best interest to be as educated as possible. I am sorry that some people have had a bad experience. For myself, I will be taking every opportunity to work with this company again in the future.

The original poster here mentioned negative cash flow, which the James Smith company (and so many others) have spelled out is a big no-no. I have no idea why they would present you with an "investment" that didn't make money from day 1, nor why you would treat that as an investment. At the seminar I attended, I was told in no uncertain terms that buying a property with negative cashflow for the promise of appreciation is speculating, not investing.

After reading many of these posts, I see a trend that is a bit frightening. It seems that many people are willing to spend thousands of dollars, money that could be used to purchase the investment opportunities that you wanted to start with, into "training". I am a licensed Realtor and I understand that people are looking for "easy" money..or at the least "soft" earnings where your money works for you. The stock market is scary and risky and many have been "sold" the idea that real estate is safer. I agree, it is safer but the market has changed drastically. You can see that in the number of foreclosures and the new buzzword "short sales"! So now I'm curious, are you all willing to spend thousands, and thousands to try and learn something to avoid using the licensed professionals who will gladly help you understand how to invest without charge? Because as buyers, realtors are your best bet to make sure you are getting the best deal, and representation in a market where you could literally lose your shirt. I want to clarify that I will be attending James' 3 day seminar that was offered at a Get Motivated Seminar. As a licensed professional it is in my client's best interest that I know all there is to be known on the subject of investing. However, if all I'm going to is another sales pitch, I will not be sending my hard-earned dollars down the drain. The old adage is still true: If it sounds too good to be true, it generally is. There is no free lunch, no easy money..Warren Buffet didn't get rich easily. It takes hard work, alot of it, and diligence. That is my "two-cents" anyway.

Why are you folks so eager to risk $5K to $20K of your Hard-Earned Money without checking it out, first? Lots of this information is FREE in your local library. The only thing missing in these seminars is the "what if the market tanks?' that we are seeing for the first time in over 30 years. If you cannot lease your condos to make the payments, you may have to "walk away."
I have attended many real estate seminars. (I think $3k was the most expensive) I have made and lost 4 small fortunes in the last 25 years. I am a Texas Mortgage Banker and I will start buying $40k - $50k (formerly $90k) homes to either fix and flip, or lease out. Real Estate runs on a 7-year cycle. You cannot afford to buy high and sell low. I like James' material, it is way overpriced, for information, in my opinion... and I feel that it may be a conflict of interest to steer a student into an associate's condo projuct. Stay away from condos. Stick with SFRs..(Single Family Residences) Use the Appraisal District for ballpark assessed value. Buy way below wholesale, not retail. Buy in your area, not out of state. Get a contractor on your team..Repairs will break you. Take your lender to lunch..Find a hard-money lender for bridge financing... Ooops! I'm giving a free seminar from my 25 years experience... and my consulting fees are way less than $1k...

James Smith Coaching teaches many things. One of the techniques the mentors and coaches are teaching currently is how to commit fraud without getting caught. Much of the "No Risk" idea comes from the thought that if you don't get caught, or don't go to jail, you must not have done anything wrong and it's "Just Business".
People who don't need to rip-off others to make money should stay clear of this scam and scam teaching company.
The real money is in the sale of ideas which is why they are not out there doing the practice (not to say they haven't scammed a few people themselves too). It is not because they want to help save the world and share their good fortune.

The coach may suggest you try to get a contract to buy a house and then sell it for profit before you buy it (Wholesailing/Assignment). What they may not tell you is how you will have to lie, cheat and steal that right from a seller using misrepresentation and fraud. There are ways to do things legally in theory, but to make money in the real world, you have to leave the boundaries of ethics and law quickly. Be careful not to let them put you in a position of being sued or charged with a crime. The line is thin.

I am a potential student and I am really trying to get a clear picture of what I will get from the M5 training class. My husband and I are extending ourselves as far as possible and I want to know if we will leave both the 3 day and 5 day class with enough knowledge to actually take part in a transaction. I do not want to be sold a higher level class at the end with the real details of how to do everything. I also don't just want to be teased with broad information with no how to's. I understand the importance of due dilligence and no matter who I am listening to I will still complete it on my own, so complaints that other people were given bad advice on a property and are upset are not needed. I just need the basics, what to look for, what numbers to run, how to locate properties etc.

Here we go again. I am only posting on this ridiculous subject because I was quoted in part. I want to point out all of the posts (both good and bad) about Mr. Smith's personal life had been removed from this and other websites several weeks ago. One website had a comment pertaining to a defamation of character lawsuit and under protest had removed all of the postings about Mr. Smith. In the comment, the "webmaster" or whatever you call the person who runs a website, had stated each and every negative post had come from the same IP address. I would be willing to bet "Rick Perry" and "Dani DeVito" posted from the same place. (It's safe to assume that "Rick Perry" isn't the governor of Texas nor is "Dani DeVito" the short actor married to Rhea Perlman.)

As I read back through all of the "cut and paste" done prior to Bob Bowen's post, I found it interesting that only the negative comments were posted and none of the positive ones made the cut. Apparently this blogger just can't let it go. I wonder why that is? In my one and only post, I stated I had absolutely no connection to James Smith, Kari Michaelsen or the "new mistress". I questioned the validity of all the dates and times of meetings, rendevous, texts, missed meetings, flights, etc. I also asked (as shown above) the blogger to state their real identity if he/she wanted to be taken seriously. I wrote my post without any underlying emotion or agenda because there was none. I made many points (two of which are quoted verbatim) and oddly enough...there was NEVER a response to my post. NOTHING. It sat there ignored for many days until everything was taken down from the website. It's obvious there was no proof. Now...it's all back up again.

So...I pose the same questions. Who are you? You began each of the posts as though you had attended a Get Motivated Seminar and was doing research, but you ended it with details (flight times, dates, etc.). How would you know that? Why do you care? James Smith seems to be a very smart man, but he wouldn't be the first guy to fall for a nipped, sucked, tucked, lifted, implanted bottle blonde. The most famous real estate tycoon in America is brilliant in business, but is known for his weird hair, trading one pretty wife for another one who is younger and has his own TV show. You can question his personal decisions, but when it comes to real estate, he knows his stuff. The same is probably true with Mr. Smith. The mistress who is "people of the church" like his father is most likely a phony, but she'll have to answer to God for that. Even hypocritical preachers (who have no theology training) can lead people to God. Why do you worry about such trivial matters that have absolutely no impact on you?

When you write character attacks on a person whose ability to continue in their vocation depends upon their personal reputation of honesty, you should state who you really are. Anyone can tell you have a vested interest in destroying James Smith. Why? If you want credibility, back up your claims with actual proof and sign your name.

I am a potentionally a new student. I have put a 5k down payment with the rest due tomorrow, 20k. I am alarmed by the some of the comments I am reading. I agree they are good salespeople and believe in the premise, "if it seems to good to be true it is". Is it a scam? Do the programs work if you do you homework? Should I get our now before I mortgage myself to the hilt?

Confused recruit,

Burlington, Iowa

Dear Salt Lake City,

You sound like someone from the company. Especially since the company is based in Utah.

Signed,

Another Dissatisfied Student

I must disagree with all the negative things I am hearing. I am a single Mom and invested the last pennies I had into James Smith company with little to no knowledge of how the real estate system worked. My Mentor was fabulous! and today I'm a living testimonial that if you do your DO Diligence, it works! I personally know Aaron Osmond is not scammer.

You know? anyone can get on here and write whatever they want. The Internet is not regulated, in fact, the BBB is not even a government/state entity. Maybe the truth of the matter is, that you are actually disappointed because you did not succeed. Many people pass the buck and do not take responsibility for their lack action.

Salt lake City, Utah

The fraud committed by NRI - James Smith, Jolee Tibbitts, Roger Williams, Aaron Asmond has personally effected me. I paid 20K to learn how to lose 200k cash. I am a single mom with 8th grade education. The properties were presented as GREAT investments and leveraged my home and bought each one out of trust and presentation. The Personal Coach processed all 11 of the Utah loans through his comapany. Broke confused and struggling...Jolee Tibitts offered to sell me a no-brainer home to flip from her sister to save me from the horrible situation, ("Stop the bleeding" they call it), only to find out, the house was not worth what I paid, but that NRI personal coach got it appraised and funded somehow. I reached out again to James Smith, Roger, Jolee who all stated I had bought horrible homes. Only to be offered another seminar. The embarrassment and the humiation of trusting the many years of expertise represented is my payment for investing in " guarentee satisfaction", "learning the ropes from the 20yrs experienced investment experts and coaches", seminar.

I have to totally agree that the James Smith organization should be responsible for keeping attendees (students) informed of schedule changes especially when charging so much money to attend their training. I called to verify the location for an event and was tranfered four times to ever get the correct location where the training was being held (which had changed from the orignal advertised location by the way). When I finally was transfered to the fourth person, I also had to listen to another sales spill about joining a select group for training at a cost of $19, 000 which I did not appreciate.

Dishonest Practices! I signed up for a Las Vegas event. I called to find out if I needed to bring any notepads, etc and was informed that the event had been cancelled due to a conflict with Mr. Smith's schedule. I sincerely think that if I wouldn't have called I would have went on to Vegas to find out in a bad way the event was cancelled. I paid $6, 495.00 for myself, my spouse and my kids (28, 25, 17, 16) to attend. Believe me it was hard to be able to get all 4, one of which has a wife to be able to go on an exact date. So they offered me a date in June for Vegas and it conflicted with 2-3 schedules. They offered several more dates and locations, which also conflicted. We just are not able to get everyone there at the same time. (in the meantime one son took a job with the Dept. of Defense and moved to Northern Virginia). So I asked for a refund on the basis that my Las Vegas Date was cancelled by their firm and not me. I was told that there was a 3 day cancel provision and that was it. The point is they cancelled the even more than 3 days after I signed the agreement...not me! Then I was told by Nate Bay that he only wanted to discuss it over the phone . I requested to discuss it via e-mail or written mail and of course haven't heard a word back from them. I really like James Smith, he cracks me up and I probaly would have scheduled another Summit when the time was right but to have them sitting on my 6k and then get all this jack and not have good business values and morals makes me think that I shouldn't attempt it again.

The trouble with the whole organization, for one thing, is who's on first? The lack of communication is troublesome. We are the Clients. We have hired them to teach us.
As Platinum student, a $16, 000 program at least, I resent the failure of the organization to let clients know about operational changes possibily affecting their sizable (at least it is to me) investment in education. Why do students have to call and request information about MP5 and/or other upcoming events - we should be the ones being kept informed. Why are some students being given terrible advice by mentors and essentially end up so frustrated they give up? I know of at least two other people in the small area where I live who are as annoyed as I am. One is a Platinum participant, and one took the supplemental mentoring program.
The organization, as I understand it, made some changes and we now have JamesSmithSeries Coaching, supposedly (?) a break away from the REIS/Success Group, and whatever else they call themselves.
PSI is not familiar to me except today I received a solicitatioin from them. The email was from Brycen Snyder who was with the Smith organization as recently as August 2008 that I know of.
It is true the training is good, and the knowledge base is there. James is brilliant and miles ahead of most of us. I believe he really does want us to be successful and independently wealthy. However, it seems his organization needs someone who is an operations-total picture person and can manage the somewhat seemingly predatory nature of some staff and outside providers.
Part of the Platinum program affords access to a team of "experts". Sorry, that, for me ended up in being referred to an outside entity wanting to sell me an expensive accounting package. My question related to Asset Protection.
Less than six months into the Platinum program, I was approached/invited to join the Elite program. Price tag: $19, 995. At first, I said yes and then cancelled within the 72 hour timeframe. The program overlaps the Platinum; uses some of the same materials, includes the "experts", and offers some other services including a guarantee.
The recruiter was provided my credit card information. The charges were applied after I cancelled. A few days later he called saying the charges were being removed that day. Later in the conversation, as before mentioned the OPM emphasis of the program, the proposed quick turnaround on profit, he convinced me to accept the offer again saying I could use my credit cards to leverage for time, and keep my equity line for investing needs. He calculated what he thought would be the monthly interest due on the credit cards, stating also my credit score would not be adveresely affected. He did not ask for my credit card information again.
Since I pay off my cards 100% each month, I felt uneasy and checked with my credit card companies who said my credit rating would be seriously affected if the balances remained open. Also, additional interest would accrue, and the monthly payments would escalate putting me at risk. Bottom line, the recruiter failed to be truthful.
Again, I notified these people within the 72 hour cancllation timeframe. Notification was sent to the recruiter and to James himself. Along with the cancellation, and request for removal of the charges immediately, some of the factors mentioned above were included in my letter/email. That was October 4, 2008.
There was no response so I contacted "customerhelp" and received a note from the CEO he was going to look into the matter. A week later, October 17, 2008, after several emails and phone calls, I received an email apologizing for the delay and yet no satisfaction. It seems the CEO has some type of difficulty comprehending the seriousness of the situation.
Over the weekend, I received a FICO notification my credit rating dropped by 28 points. It had been 804.
It is curious to me why after only being in a program less than six months, I was approached for another program. In light of that, in my letter/email I also mentioned some consideration, a rebate, or cost reduction should be offered to "Elite" recruits at the outset as an appropriate way to do business.
Because there was no mention of how the tuition was structured, I posed this question also: Is tuition based on a per student basis or was this another opportunity for single people to subsidize dual income couples.

I too was taken in by Darel Snyder and PSI Group. I bought into the Phoenix condo (Trilium project), and it was fine for the first 2 years during the "guarantee" period. But after that, everything went wrong. The market in Phoenix has totally tanked, NOTHING has sold in that complex in the last 2 years, we're trying to do a short sale to avoid foreclosure, but we would have to sell a $220, 000 condo for $110, 000 to even get any offers, and it might not even sell at that price. We're losing over $1, 000 per month on this, and can't afford it any longer. Darel used his relationship to James Smith to give his project credibility and get lots of buyers for the condo project, then he sold out at the top of the market. I saw the same thing happen at his project in Roseville, CA, but fortunately that is near my home so I was aware of the changing market and didn't fall for it there. Darel was pitched as a Real Estate expert who sold $1Billion (with a B) worth of Real Estate in TX, so he should have known that prices don't go up forever, and condos are the first to tank. Maybe if he had sat in on some of those Real Estate classes instead of just selling to the students he would've known.

While I understand the disappointment that accompanies a failed investment, I can't feel bad for someone who doesn't do their own due dilligence. In response to Jim's post, I strongly disagree. Daryl Snyder is not a good person and is excellent at scamming the public through James' bravado. These guys pocketed commissions north of 10% on many of their bogus deals and pretended that they offered an "amazing deal" to students. It is so easy to prey on seminar students who bank on appreciation. You want to find a real investment - CASHFLOW IS KING! If it doesn't make sense now, then it probably won't in a few years. If it does make sense now and at least breaks even, the chances are much higher that you'll make money. James is an arrogant hypocrite and Daryl has gotten rich off his coattails.

            My hat's off to you for your honesty and owning your situation.  I listened to a James Smith seminar today for the first time, and must admit, was totally blown away by the guy.  While in real estate exam school for my KY sales license one of my instructors was commenting on how her daughter's home value had plummeted in Az. since the Scottsdale area market had gone belly-up, just like all the rest of the rediculously over priced properties in California, Mich, and Florida.  See a parrallel to the Tech Crash here?             Unfortunately, and as you know all too well, you bought in to the top of one of the most over priced markets in the country.  Once again, thanks for your honesty.  I plan on attending a follow up session soon.  I only hope I can take some advantage of Smith's knowledge and motivation without shelling out a boatload of cash.  I am still a little troubled however, about the late or total lack of feedback or follow up between some students and NRI/PSI.  Thanks.

I was the one who wrote the complaint regarding PSI group. I just have to make few clarifications.

I liked the James Smith's training; it has a lot of potential. I just had higher expectations then what I got from M5. If you are serious about real estate I HIGHLY recommend James Smith's training. Like I wrote in my first message, he has the right concept. Just you have to go out there and do it.

I got a phone call from Darel Snyder regarding my Edge property and he was VERY SUPPORTIVE and honest. We have our differences, which is fine. I respect his different perspective.

At the beginning my vision was the following: hold the property for 18 months, sell it and make a quick cash. But the condo market has changed. Give my financial situation I can not hold on to the condo for a long time. And if I sell it right now I will loss money on it. If I can hold on to it, over time the price will go high for sure.

From my financial STRESS I was blaming PSI group, which was a wrong thing to do. It's my responsibility. THE LESSON FROM THIS IS THE FOLLOWING: Next time I will add following variables into my equation: changes of my financial situation and the real estate market fluctuation. WILL I DO BUSINESS WITH PSI GROUP NEXT TIME? YES. Given Darel's SUPPORT AND HONESTY. YES I WILL.

Regards,
Hovsep A

I am familiar with the Edge project and Darel and Brycen Snyder. I am a student of James Smith's and the experience has been life changing and worth every penny. To date, I have purchased over 200 units in 7 states through what I learned through his courses. Worth every cent. Through these classes I met Darel and Brycen and they are two of the most quality individuals out there. I have a hard time believing they have not contacted the person posting here as they are great about getting back to you when you need something. If you have doubts, go to their website and ask a question, see how long it takes. Anyways, love the training, love the PSI Group, and love James Smith.

For those who want to interact with others who have either heard of james smith, taken james smith courses, or just want to learn/share their knowledge and experience about James Smith OR real estate investing... please come and join us here:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/James-Smith-Real-Estate-Guru/

Is he the real deal? Ha... it depends whom you ask. This list has been around since 2004... w/over 800+ members and growing!

Are you aware that the market has changed? I don't feel that we can blame James Smith for that!

Is that purchase the only one you made after attending the seminar? Perhaps you weren't putting much effort in to what you were taught!

I had an opportunity to buy at the Edge also. That property wasn't one I chose to invest in. That's not to say that I haven't purchased 2 properties in Waikiki, 3 in Butte, Mt., 5 in San Diego, & quite a few other ones after attending M5. I think James Smith is fantastic as well as many of the other instructors I had an opportunity to learn from.

Yes, I did buy investment property before I met James Smith. You sometimes get busy with life & become a bit complacent. He gave investing a different twist & also got us off our butts to get back out there to continue to look for investment properties. I feel my money was well spent.