Shaw Floors review: Nonsense 79

We have the same problem. They shouldn't sell this crap. It isn't "pools of water" that cause it a problem, it's ANY water... normal dampness that is tracked in from dew, even. If we had been advised of just how water-sensitive this product actually is, we would have went with something else.

Even vinyl would have been a MUCH better choice.

Moisture emissions need to be directed up the wall with a moisture barrier. Installed vinyl can not do this and therefore is not a suitable moisture barrier when used alone. Urine and water are not the same. In fact, swelling of the floor does not always cause any problems in the area that became wet. The swelling will generally affect in line with areas where the expansion space is no longer available. My guess is this- remove the moldings along the edge of the floor in line with the areas that are buckling and you will find that there was not adequate expansion space being maintained and therefore the flooring is pushing against the wall with no where else to go but up.

We had general lifting all throughout the flooring on the edges of the board. Cleaned with vacum and occasionally laminate cleaner using a pad that was just barely damp with laminate cleaner to remove dirt and other harder to remove items. They have an extremely evasive warranty process that you need to deal with the store. However, the store doesn't seem to know what to do. When I reached an annoyed woman at Shaw, she said my warranty claim was rejected and a letter was sent to the store over a month ago. Having trouble getting documentation of the reasons for the rejection. They are very evasive. Looks like I need to get professional help to go after them.

I'm having trouble with the laminate separating. The first floor they installed the whole top finish pealed off in the first 2 days. Now that floor has been down for 2 years and the boards are seperating. I'm currently in contact with the flooring company to resolve this.

we have the same problem with shaw perpetual laminate blistering at the seams .with no liquid used on it and plenty of expansion space at the walls over 1/4 "at all walls. the floor under the laminate was sealed and does have a vapor barriator also..I think we need a class action lawsuit against them if they dont want to stand behind there warranty!

Shaw came out and went through the motions of checking for defective laminate. The laminate is not defective. It works as designed. IT'S THE DESIGN THAT IS DEFECTIVE! One could make the argument that the Ford Pinto was acting "within design specifications" when it exploded upon rear impact. "There's nothing wrong with YOUR PINTO, they all do this, " is not a good defense. This Shaw laminate is an awful choice for flooring, in my opinion. I spent $12, 000 having it installed, and now, less than two years later, the high traffic area (living room) looks like hell and needs to be replaced.

Everything about this floor is pure [censor]! I'm gonna put Piano Man buy Billy Joel and cry myself to sleep maybe even get drunk and have sex with hookers and hope i contract the HIV. Goodbye cruel world

I'm a most unhappy owner of a $15, 000 Shaw Laminate floor. After a little over a year, the edges of the boards are blistered and bubbled and the finish is starting to chip off. It looks to me as if it is a manufacturing defect where the laminate was improperly applied to the board. Not all the boards are affected, but a significant number of boards in specific areas are bad, as if the boards came from the same pack and unfortunately there were a lot of bad packs. To me, it was fairly obvious but not to the dealer.
The Company rep from the dealer theorized that it was because water had been on the floor, but was at a loss to explain why the areas affected weren't near a water source and were in multiple rooms, and why the areas affected were clustered near each other. He accused me of washing the floor! I admitted that I had removed dirt from the floor. (Apparently this is a floor that is too delicate to withstand cleaning?) He theorized that I had washed it incorrectly or used the wrong stuff to clean it. He couldn't give me the name of the product and the warranty book didn't name any specific brand, but he was sure that whatever I used was bad for the floor. I'm not the most fastidious housekeeper. I vac weekly and spot clean any spots with a sponge. The floor has only been "mopped" once since I've owned it and I was careful about getting the water up to prevent water spots. I asked the rep to explain to me how the cleaning solution damaged the floor only in certain locations and not others, since it wasn't my custom to vary the cleaning solution depending on which boards I was cleaning. He hemmed and hawed and switched his tactic when I pressed him for a direct answer. Then it was due to pets. Except that I do not own any pets and no animal has ever been in the house. We don’t have small children anymore or I’m sure that would have been next.
The dealer’s rep needs to have to have someone else look at the floor. He maintained that this is a high quality floor even though it didn't last 2 years. It must be my fault. Hopefully the person they send out to look at the floor will be able to recognize a manufacturing defect when they see it. I know they don’t want to deal with this. It’s not the highlight of my life either, but the floor is obviously defective if the floor is truly too fragile to handle cleaning what lands on it within 18 months for whatever reason.

Great write up on this junk flooring Julie W. Thats why I think there should be a classaction against shaw!

Add Mannington floors to that list. We had our installed professionally less than 1 year ago. After 6 months there has been significant bubbling and the company has refused - in writing and twice - to provide replacements. They say it is due to water damage, but their floors are supposed to be under warranty for 25 years under "normal household conditions". We take great care of them and cannot figure out why this keeps happening, other than they just sold us a crap product and don't want the cost of replacements.

Moral of this story...DON"T BUY MANNINGTON FLOORS!

This floor is absolutely impossible to install. I am writing this as my installer is ripping it up. Shaw flooring sold my mother this flooring with out telling her bout the moisture problems. But this floor just will not lock! Everytime he tries to lock it in place another piece pops out of place. Its frustratin for me to watch him. Its been days to have it installed and im finally done. We are rippin out the floor and lookin for somethin else. I am not waitin to have the bubblin problems yall have.

We have a house full of Shaw laminate. It is swelling where no water has been. This flooring is terrible! I wish we had never installed it. Do not buy this crap! It's hard to keep clean. It has no moisture resistance. We have been careful to mop with a barely damp mop head specially designed for wood and laminate. We have area rugs. We have door mats at every entrance. The flooring is still bubbling. Shaw doesn't care.

Same problem here. I could understand if flooding damaged a floor, but a laminate floor needs to stand up to everyday situations, it shouldn't be delaminating because of an icube melted on the floor. Also having separation issues on the short edges. I bought this junk because of the 30 year warranty, yet people who installed cheaper brands are not having these issues.

I have the same complaint with my Shaw laminate flooring. ..the edges in several different areas seperating from the core for no apparent reason. This was first noticed over two (2) years ago and I thought since it was just a small area at that time it was not an issue. However the delamination of the edges is now in both door entries, kitchen, living room, dining area, and hallway. I spoke with customer service at the store where it was purchased and they immediately contacted Shaw who sent out their own independent inspector paid for by Shaw, of course. His observations showed that his readings for temperature, humidity did not change much indicating older damage. How about two years? No buckling or tenting noted due to lack of expansion space. No odor or evidence of pet accidents noted. Evidence of dried moisture from maintenance, pet, or drips left on the planks (meaning dot sized water spots in the kitchen). His report conclusion ... swelling damage is locally caused TOPICAL moisture in seam joints, COULD NOT determine sources. None are manufacturing related concerns. Topical moisture in seam joints is excluded by warranty for most laminate products.

From this report I get that if you own a Shaw product you should only dust it and never use anything with moisture in it to clean. Not even the laminate cleaner that I bought especially for that purpose.

All this simply means that Shaw will NOT stand behind its warranty. They have their money and are enjoying it. I recommend that anyone who is interested in laminate flooring do NOT purchase a Shaw product. I know that since I am having to totally redo my floors SHAW IS NOT going to be considered. I guess they do not want repeat business.

We installed Armstrong laminate in our condo several years back, and we enjoyed them immensely. Armstrong made a great product, and we assumed all laminate flooring would behave the same way. We were wrong. We built a new home 2 yrs ago and the builder installed Shaw laminate flooring. Now 2 yrs later, this flooring has no resistance whatsoever to even a drop of water falling on it. It is buckling in several places. It is hard to clean. The high traffic areas look awful. We removed our area rug for cleaning and the floor underneath is like new- totally different from the flooring everywhere else. We hate that this floor will have to be replaced before we can even hope to sell our home sometime in the future. I'm not exaggerating- it MUST be replaced. I am sickened by this cheap flooring and can guarantee you that we will never again use Shaw.

My parents have been attempting to install the Shaw flooring in their living room. It is a modest 13' by 12' room, and after 8 hours of struggling, crying, and much cursing, less than one quarter of the floor is laid. The planks simply refuse to lock in place. Numerous instructional videos have been watched; we are positive that we are going about installing this in the right way. If we try to lock one end of one board, the opposite end of a different board pops out of its lock. And in several spots where the boards DID lock, there are noticible gaps and ledges between planks. After examining about 30 different planks, I noticed that each and every one of them has a noticible warp to it. This probably explains why they don't lock together. But my parents have given up. They are just going to install the floor, regardless of how many gaps come out of it. Shaw upgraded this flooring to a 40 year warranty, but I find it impossible that they will even be in business in 40 years. Do go to Hell, Shaw.

I really wish I would have read these comments before we had Shaw flooring installed in our house. We too had buckling issues 3 weeks after we had it was installed. Because the flooring was paid for by our insurance (we had a housefire ) they sent out an inspector. The first inspector was hired by the installers. He said it was a consumer issue meaning it was something we did. I wiped it with a lightly damp towel and there was no reason it should have buckled. After a few months our insurance sent out another inspector who they hired. He tested it for two weeks cleaning it according to manufacturers instructions and guess what? It buckled.
Our insurance has agreed to replace it and we will probably go with Costco. We installed the inexpensive laminate they sell on the floor, in my sons room 5 years ago and it still looks great!

I am another person who wishes I had checked for posts like this before I had the Shaw flooring installed. Ours was also an insurance claim - replaced the carpet and I noticed the buckling of the joints almost immediately. My husband told me to just let it breathe for a bit and it would settle. The other morning, I got up to find a puddle of water on our kitchen floor. Couldn't have been more than 1 cup of liquid. We cannot determine where it came from, we are assuming it was a kid who spilled and didn't clean it up, but really - not a lot of liquid. The floor is a MESS. I have three kids and three animals in this house. If this floor could not handle a little bit of liquid, I sure would have appreciated the sales guy telling me that from the get go, cos spills are bound to happen! I called the flooring installers this morning who called an inspector to come out. The guy had a water measurer thing which beeped all over the place where the floor is buckling and warped and bubbled. He said we spilled 2L of liquid. I told him there was NO way. HE tried to find a leak on my dishwasher - no go. Tried to find a leak on my fridge, nothing. I told him that I have seen this in another spot where my dog lifted his leg - he is a [censored]zu yorkie - can't produce a whole lot of liquid, and he sort of shrugged. Told me that it wasn't the floor - it was designed to withstand moisture damage. Now here I am with a totally damaged floor - that I HATE. We can't afford to replace the whole thing. I have no idea what to do. Devastated by this and feel 100% ripped off.

I could cry reading these. We just installed Shaw laminate about two months ago. Spent a lot of money on it and had it installed. We too are very unhappy with the quality and it is hard to keep clean. We have bubbling along a seem in our front room and are sick about it. W They left us some extra planks, but after reading these posts I hesitate trying to replace that area ourselves. We have two small dogs and have been persistent in making sure there were no accidents. Very frustrated.

My husband and I just had shaws laminate flooring put in and three weeks later we have a total of seven pieces coming up! We also have had lots of bubbling and gaps forming. You'd think only being three weeks old that they would have no problem fixing it but two months later we are still fighting them to do something about it! Today we will file a small claims court against them.

I bought Shaw laminate flooring for 2 rooms and attempted the install on the first room. The boards would not lock in place. You would get 2 or 3 rows installed correctly, then the first row would become unlocked. I watched the installation video and they say to put the unopened boxes down on the rows that were completed. Tried that - the boards would simply not stay locked together. I have installed other brands of Laminate before and those rooms still look great! I called Shaw for a list of authorized installers in my town and they say they won't give me a list of authorized installers. Why not? Now what do I do with all these boxes of laminate left?

Armstrong flooring is no better. We have $8K in high-gloss Armstrong laminate installed and now, 18 months later, it's coming up here and there. Today was the final straw. Doggie took a pee. We discovered it an hour later. The floor is absolutely ruined - bubbled up like you wouldn't believe bc the pee seeped down into the seams. We saved a couple boxes, but I honestly don't know how to go about replacing the pieces in the middle of the room. I'll live with this for another year or so, but will replace with tiles. I'm sick of the nighttime squeak squeak squeak. I wish someone had told us not to buy this crap. They are getting away with a big-### scam.

we too had an insurance claim and i chose the Shaw floor. After it was finally installed I noticed the corners of a few boards looking as though it was peeling--we called out the flooring company and in turn Shaw sent out their own guy who of course said it was NOT the floor and there was nothing wrong with it and that it was the installer's fault to which our flooring company got involved because they did not want to be at fault. I complained again and had another guy come out and he was able to pull multiple boards out--this time, this guy knew what he was doing, had a special tool and camera. A few days later, Shaw rep came to my house to look at it and even agreed there was something wrong. They gave me new Shaw flooring -- similar but wider planks--it had the SAME problem! So, i told the flooring company I did NOT want to have ANYTHING to do with Shaw products in my home. I was able to pick out a whole new brand and love it! I am thankful our flooring company stood behind me--otherwise Shaw would have rolled right over me.

I am a contractor who recently installed Shaw flooring for a client and it is the worst flooring we have ever used. The installation process of this floor was very challenging even for the skilled professional on our job. We immediately contacted the local rep to express our frustration with the product and we were told that this was a common issue. We received an email with the same documentation that came in the box that is basically the same procedure of all laminates (other than Shaw's) and all other laminates we have installed in the past have gone in with no issues. With the Shaw, the joints were NOT going together well and would constantly pop back out. Then when they were finally locked, they are not smooth (which we were later told that they can be a business card off in height according to Shaw's standards) at all! The seams are sharp to bare feet ! Then within two weeks of being installed, we noticed a couple of end joints seperating. We filed a claim and got the rep out who commented on how well the install was done but we would still need an outside inspector (hired by Shaw mind you) to look at the flooring. Three weeks later we got an inspection from this Shaw hired inspector. He only sticks a thin wire under the base to try and guess what the expansion gaps are (which my installer is so picky about having and we can more than gaurantee they are there). His report comes back and states that the joints seperating are due to lack of expansion joints...completely contradicting! If there are no expansion joints, then where is the floor going where the joints are expanding? Now we have more end joints coming apart and still no resolution! After talking to several suppliers and installers (who all have had issues with Shaw Laminate and refuse to sell it any more) we are now hiring another inspector and will continue to pursue it to get a resolution for our client.

"Imagine the colors of a sunrise on the Gobi desert or a warm afternoon in Tibet, the Radiant Luster Collection offers a stunning high gloss visual in four on-trend colors - all with beveled edges on 4 sides, attached neoprene pad, Loc N Place locking system, a 25-year limited wear warranty and coordinating moldings."
What they don't tell you with the Radiant Luster is that the sides of it are coated with WAX to lock out moisture. Randy_Mary, that is why the rep hemmed and hawed. In beveled areas where water and moisture might collect, they coat the sides of the laminate in WAX. It doesn't say that anywhere in their advertising nor do the flooring people tell you that you can only use Shaw products specifically made for shaw flooring to protect the WAX. At least you got a warranty book which also does not say that the sides of your floor are covered in WAX. They tell you don't use ammonia. They tell you not to use water. What they do tell you is this:
"Periodically clean the floor with cleaning products made specifically for laminate floor care. For optimum results, we recommend Shaw's R2X Hard Surfaces Floor Cleaner." They tell you to use a cleaner specifically for laminate flooring. You show the cleaner to the installer. Does it say for laminate floors? Yes. Use it. I have no time to run in to a place that is closed while I am shopping to buy Shaw products. Well, At least 1/2 of the cleaners out there are not for use on wax floors. You may THINK you have a heavy duty laminate floor. What you have is a WAX floor so fragile that within weeks it begins to dissolve. Because you have used a cleaner other than Shaws, your warranty is void. You would think they would tell you that important information before buying, you would think they would have that caution on their advertising for Radiant Luster but they don't... but then who would purchase Shaw flooring.
You may believeee you DON"T HAVE a wax floor but when the adjuster comes out that is when you find out that you do. You thought you bought a laminate floor but it has all the durability of WAX . You may ask, who is their right minds coats the beveled sides of a locking laminate floor in WAX that can easily dissolves using cleaners made specifically for laminate floors? Shaw.
So your dogs haven't peed, your children haven't spilled water. You are probably just using a cleaner for laminates that you got at Home Depot or Lowes that is not s/b used on Shaw floors because they are WAX floors and all it takes is one or two times and your floor is destroyed. OF course, even if you didn't use the cleaner, the max amount of time you can have water on this durable flooring is not 2 days, it is 20 minutes. Your dog walks in from a rainy day. You drop an ice cube on the floor. You are at work, not at home. You go without any of the conveniences of using an automatic floor cleaner, carefully spraying and handmopping a floor because using a wet mop might void your warranty. Because of the WAX coating on the sides and the bevels from the design, you are screwed. You wind up detesting your floor, something you invested thousands of dollars on, something you paid to enhance the look of your home and you are screwed because you purchased from Shaw.

Looks like we are all experiencing the same bubbling, warping and manufacturer claim issues. I don't even have to describe my situation because it will read exactly like most of these. If this product is not defective according to Shaw, then it is very impractical since it evidently cannot withstand a reasonable amount of day to day light moisture contact. I purchased Swiftlock Bronzed Birch from Lowe's (from Shaw).

My Shaw floor is 3 days old and it has started to blister, and bubble. What is the manufacturer going to do about these complaints on the Shaw floor?

Well, I am contacting my attorney. I have been waiting for the official decision from Shaw for over 3 months now. Technically, it can be litigated in small claims court.

exactly the same type of bubbling and rippling. DId you see if there was wax on the edges of the laminate?

Come on People, tell me what you really think! I have to thank you all for the insight on this product. I am in the process of trying to figure out what laminate flooring to purchase from. And thanks to you all, it won't be Shaw. I currently had 4 other samples of flooring soaking completely in water for 24 hours. All but DuPont showed signs of lifting after 6 hours, but DuPont's took about 20 hours to finally show signes of swelling at the edges. These all had the AC3 or AC4 rating, but the wear layer doesn't matter is the water gets in the seams. For soaking totally in water for 24 hours, I'm sure not much gets in the seams. Obviously the tighter the better. Also, even though you aren't supposed to have to glue or silicon them, it might be worthwhile to do so no matter what the namebrand. One question. If this pressed board is such a problem, why is anybody still using it? Seems to me a recycleable material like plastic would work. I haven't soaked the Shaw yet. Anybody have a guess what it'll look like in the morning? By the way, so far DuPont has my vote.

I wish I had checked this site before purchasing Shaw Laminate Flooring for our foyer and kitchen. It looked fabulous for about one day. Then the bubbling started happening. At first, we thought it was an installation problem, but the installation was perfect. The long story short is that Shaw's inspector found the bubbling was due to water intrusion not a manufacturing defect, so they will not cover it. Shouldn't a floor that's advertised as a great solution for kitchens and bathrooms withstand a little bit of moisture? This floor is PURE CRAP. After 3 months, it looks like absolute garbage, bubbling on most seams. And guess what? Shaw DOESN'T CARE! Buyers beware.

After a house fire, we had Shaw laminate floors installed in a very LARGE area, living room, kitchen, dining room. I am finding it hard to spot clean; I wipe it up with water sprayed onto a cloth, and it has to be dried. I have tried using a moistened microfiber mop to wipe up footprints, it need to be wiped dry. I have tried using a dry microfiber mop to dry the spot I rubbed. The dry microfiber mop doesn't want to move. My hope was to use a swiffer mop like I did with the vinyl, there is a residue left behind. Haven't had any bubbles, or boards coming up, but we have only been in the house since Memorial Day weekend. I wish I hadn't read these complaints about the Shaw Flooring, isn't there anybody who is happy with the flooring? As I recall, class actions seem to have been squashed by the Supreme court, maybe small claim court.

Well, I have officially heard that like everyone else my claim has been denied. I have used Bruce cleaner in the specified manner from Shaw. I have not used my floor cleaner which has hurt me with my back issues. I have not abused this floor in the slightest. My only saving grace is that I was installing the floor in portions and I had been about to order the bedrooms, having paid for the first portion when this happened. I will be going to an attorney to plan once I have the report and the paperwork. While the cost of the flooring is still small claims amount, it would not be the first time I have taken on a giant and won on behalf of a whole bunch of consumers. That's because I am honest and the jury can see it in my eyes. I paid a fair price, I went with a professional installer. ignoring my health problems, I cleaned the floor as directed. I used commercial laminate products on the market today, a rubber maid spray microfiber mop and Bruce cleaner for laminate flooring per Shaw's advertising. Had steps as the inspector had said like "lightly spraying a fine mist of Shaw cleaner directly upon a microfiber mop and then gently wiping the floor with it" been necessary to keep the Shaw warranty valid, if it was on on Shaw advertising at all or not to use any laminate cleaner except Shaw, I would not have purchased the flooring. What I was told by Shaw was that I could not use a steamer and I could not use my floormate or do wet mopping on it: IE using a mop soaked with water and scrubbing the floor. Once the jury sees that you have to treat this floor with greater care than fine art, we will win.
With an attorney, they will charge about 40% of the amount that they receive. Since there is consumer fraud also which bumps the amount up in this state astronomically, there is the possibility that you will get more than just your floor. There is a possibility that you will not get more than the satisfaction of winning against Shaw and the attorney takes all. Or if the state gets involved, that many more people will be added once they get the customer warranty list from Shaw. Class actions have not been squashed.
Please send me copies and photos of your complaints. The email address is shaw_flooring_complaints@hotmail.com. I will also need the names, addresses and phone numbers of anyone who wishes to be in a class action against Shaw.

I am having the same problem. The edges of my floor are bubbling. My flooring was installed in a brand new house and started after we moved in. They claim that it is moisture also. They sent a inspector out and he said that the humidity was good. I was doing everything correct. I also had to hear his life history. So 10 months later after no response I call and I am told that the claim is denied but they can't provide a copy of the report to the dealer. REALLYT! I am so unhappy and wish that a class action lawsuit be brought against this company. I have around 800 or more Sq Ft of this crap and hate it. I can't believe that they have this many complaints and do nothing about it. I say CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST SHAW! Anyone else with me? My email is artheam@hotmail.com.

Pergo flooring has the same problem. They tell me it must have gotten wet and I say wet from what? I have no pets, kids nor even a Goldfish. Dont buy Pergo laminater flooring either. Very unhappy with it.

I also should have read the reviews first. I have a new home and immediately there were bubbles and ends folding up. Of course, everyone (shaw and the company I got it from) say it is because of moisture b/c I have 3 dogs. Their water dishes are in a laundry room 7 a bathroom both with tile. They are now fixing the bubbled areas, however the worst in the kitchen can not be fixed without tearing out the cabinets or cutting out the floor and placing shoe molding at the base, which takes away from my cabinets. I have 2000sq ft of this down and am so upset. It has taken 3 months just to get them to come out to repair the worst parts and then I'm told-"get better coverage with area rugs" If I would have wanted my flooring covered I'd have went with carpet. My old house had cheap laminate from Menards and we had a pool that the dogs swam in. They were always coming in wet and that floor NEVER bubbled or buckled. I am so frustrated that I spent $13, 000 for this stuff! I will never buy Shaw again.

I found a local auction site selling various lots of 7mm and 8mm Shaw laminate flooring. I felt the price to be reasonable, but after reading all the posts on this site, I am REAL happy to say I have not placed bid, and not wasted one dollar. I feel everyone's pain, having been screwed over by a vinyl siding contractor and manufacturer, but I want you you ALL to know that speaking out will keep at least one more person from spending hard earned money on an obviously faulty product. Thank you all, for sharing your bad experiences, and KEEP SPEAKING OUT ! ! ! -Mike in Buffalo

Shaw laminate floor installed a year and a half ago and it is buckling along the seams. Rep comes to our house with the store owner and says it is water damage. Absolutely no chance it is water damage. The boards that are damaged are not even close to sink or dish washer. We point this out. Her decision is that we used too much laminate cleaner. What? Shaw is the worst company. I am filing a complaint with BBB and considering hiring a lawyer.

I installed $4, 000 of Shaw laminate on our first story floors after renovation. They do not lock together good at all because they have cheapened the interlocking edges. I installed Shaw laminate on the upstairs floors about 7 years ago and the process went well. Comparing some leftover flooring from then with the flooring used last year, you can see how cheap it is now. Shaw makes a crappy product so don't look for their customer service to be any different. than the flooring. I tell anyone who is thinking of flooring NOT to use Shaw. I even sent Warren Buffet a letter because Berkshire Hathaway has Shaw Industries as a holding company. NO response back from him. If you buy Shaw you will be holding your ### when everything is said and done.

Shaw laminate is garbage and the warranty is worthless. The factory rep comes to your house and automatically says the bubbling is water damage. Even when the bad boards are in random areas not even near the sink or dishwasher. I wish an attorney would take up a class action lawsuit against Shaw. We would get pennys on the dollar but I would derive great satisfaction from seeing Shaw's reputation tarnished.