Subway review: Cold meat/extremely bad service 41

I really hope you contact their corporate hotline and possibly even the health department with this complaint about the meatballs. If the store isn't heating their bulk hot product (meatballs in this case) to the correct temp, they could end up making a lot of people sick. Subways can hold their heated meatballs for a few hours longer than it takes for bacteria to start growing if they aren't the proper temperature. ..and since this franchise doesn't seem to follow the most fundamental rule of food safety (temperature), they are probably holding them much longer than permitted, which makes them even MORE of a hazard.

A Subway I know once got got serving out-of-temp product over a year ago. It was an honest equipment malfunction that was noticed before it posed a threat to public health (not ongoing like your experiences), but they are still operating under the threat of getting shut down by corporate if one more food safety violation is recorded.

SPM79: Improper holding temperatures are responsible for way more food borne illness cases than inadequate cooking (about 3x more). Check any CDC report if you don't believe me. Any volatile food that is let sit between the temps of 40 and140 for more than 2 hours is a considered hazardous and can not be served.

Irish: Professionals that deal with the public, such as the health department or restaurant field consultants (like myself) know how read past the irrelevant details that people provide (in this case, that they speak Korean). We also know that many comments are truly motivated by other factors (racism), which is why we don't board up restaurants whenever we received a complaint. It's unlikely that the health department of Subway's FCs will even make an unscheduled visit unless multiple complaints are made.

However, encouraging the public to be more outspoken about truly hazardous practices (this isn't a smudged sneeze-guard or unswept floor complaint) is probably the most important thing that can be done to prevent food borne illness outbreaks, which is why I spoke up.

Wow.

This is the most recent report that has been made available on the internet and has all the relevant information in one document:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5510a1.htm

Read the second paragraph of the results section and reference table 19.

My simple summary:

894 of the outbreaks in which the proliferation factors were reported were attributed to improper holding temperatures. 373 of the outbreaks in which the survivability factors were reported were attributed to inadequate initial cooking.

More recent data is available on the CDC site, you'll just has to reference multiple documents.

The temperature danger zone from the FDA site:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/HealthEducators/ucm083057.htm

"This refers to the range of temperatures at which bacteria can grow - usually between 40° and 140° F (4° and 60° C). For food safety, keep food below or above the "danger zone." Remember the 2-Hour Rule: Discard any perishables (foods that can spoil or become contaminated by bacteria if unrefrigerated) left out at room temperature for longer than two hours. When temperatures are above 90° F (32° C), discard food after one hour."

SPM79: I provide a statement in my own words and you ask for facts to back up my comments. I provide links to credible resources and you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about. You're grasping at straws there, buddy.

Irish: I honestly appreciate your civility. However, calling people out for grammar mistakes on the internet is futile. You made a few yourself, as did I. It happens, and it really isn't an indication of the credibility of a person's comments.

That said, I'm getting the impression that you would be surprised by how little consumers notify the proper authorities of situations that truly have the potential to be hazardous, like this one. Those that more likely to vocalize their criticisms tend to have the food safety intelligence level of, well, SPM79, and think as long as you cook something it will hold safely forever and a day, no matter the environment. I don't work directly for any government health department, but a lot of what I hear from peers (I consider them such because we regularly work together) indicates that most complaints against restaurants by consumers generally have very little to do with protecting public health.

Also, it is unwise to carry on any personal conversation when serving customers, whether it is in English or not. It basically builds a wall between the employee and the customer, making the later feel alienated and more prone to become defensive. The vehicle it provides to encourage consumers (racists or not) to speak out against a company is just too big of a risk to take. I have been a part of published research that is very similar to this statement (I'd provide a link but 1: There's no free copy on the internet 2: I don't want to open myself to accusations of copy and pasting my own words again).

If in fact this complaint was made by some desperate business owner going to drastic ends to increase their sales, they are probably doomed anyway.

I really don't think a boycott would be necessary. A franchise owner whose most creative means for survival is internet slander is going to go under, eventually.

Really, the only reason I comment on restaurant complaints is because I hope that consumers who have the patience to do a little casual internet 'research' before shooting off at the mouth about their experience with 'dem dern imgrants' will see my comments and have the capability to understand the difference between a fluke bad experience and something that is worth speaking up about.

I can't remember the last time I left anything out for that long, but yes, I probably would.

I say probably because there is a HUGE difference between me, a healthy adult, making the personal choice to take that risk, and a restaurant that is serving potentially hazardous food to hundreds of unknowing customers a day, who include the elderly, the very young, the sick, and other people whose immune systems may not be in peak condition for whatever reason.

Would you have feed that pizza to a family member or good friend who is getting chemotherapy, or has mono, or is experiencing pregnancy complications?

You are absolutely right that leaving it out overnight is the same as leaving it out at a party. And you are right that certain foods themselves don't really cause pregnancy complications (it's the bacteria that MAY be present and MAY have not been killed because of how it is prepared).

Monitoring the holding temperature of foods is just a precaution, just like cooking food. Sure, you can generally eat a rare steak or a runny egg and be fine, but it does increase your risk of getting a food borne illness. It's essentially the same thing as leaving a pizza or sandwich tray out for more than 2 hours at a party, but as I have shown, it can be much more risky than not fully cooking something.

That said, I'm going to stop trying to draw comparisons between we handle our food at home and how restaurants do it. Individuals have the right to make those decisions, restaurants do not. It is the law. When a restaurant applies for the various necessary permits needed to begin operations, they agree to abide by these laws. If they ignore these obligations, their permits can be revoked.

Just read the last comment on page 1...

Almost any food can be contaminated by bacteria that is dangerous to any one whose immune system is compromised. Saying that a pizza couldn't possibly have toppings that may have e coii or salmonella (just throwing those names out since they well recognized) is pretty silly.

Really?

What would you do if you got food poisoning from a restaurant?

Heather you vegetarians are very picky about what you eat. If a server accidently drops a cat's claw in your salad you scream as if it were its head.

Yea, most of your logic is seriously flawed Lady. I have evaluated restaurants that had been serving product that had expired MONTHS ago. I've seen moldy food on the line. I've seen evidence of rodents trotting around in their stock, sitting around waiting to be served to you...and I'll say it for the third or fourth time, I do NOT work for the health department, so I'm noticing stuff they must have just missed.

Enforceable standards have to be set somewhere, and the easiest/most logical way to do that is to base them on research that has shown to be the most effective means known to avoid contamination and reduce the rate at which bacteria, viruses and parasites proliferate.

You and I can make the decision to eat whatever the hell we want. To imply that I'm a germaphobe based on the fact that I hold the restaurants I inspect to a higher standard is ridiculous. I hate to be condescending, but I clearly have a better grasp on how a seemingly minor infraction can blow up and send hundreds of people to the hospital (not the bathroom) or their grave (yes, food poisoning can kill people, no matter what squalid a person has been living in).

I will back you up on the glove thing, slightly...They really don't inhibit contamination much, they're only worn to comfort the public and stop stuff from falling off their hands and into the food (pieces of skin or nail, nail polish, etc), which is essentially the same thing (swallowing a clean finger nail won't make you sick).

But is an terrible idea to get an attitude about changing visibly soiled gloves. They cost about .01 cents each and it takes less than 5 seconds and very little energy to do. If Lady really thinks that effort's minimal profit loss outweighs the importance of the public's opinion of customer service and cleanliness, I wish her luck in any business adventures she may decide to pursue (cause luck is the only thing that will allow her to survive).

Health departments in my state are only required to conduct one inspection every 6 months.

..and I said "evidence of"

Rodents don't like people. They don't just sit in the food waiting to be killed, they come out at night when no one is around. In fact, it isn't unheard of to find that they don't actually inhabit the place of business, but instead just regularly sneak in for a midnight snack.

Oh my god. Every complaint I read is infested with Irish and others, primarily Lady Scot just making NO SENSE. Is it ###ing troll 24/7 for you guys? ###.

OBVIOUSLY he is the owner of Charlies. Because that is SOOOO obvious because he mentioned Charlies AND BK?!?!?!?!?

My god...

LadyScot, you are ridiculous. You do realize that this is a complaint board where people can warn the general public about different companies, right? I don't think you need to concern yourself with the reasons people post here. The name of the website is pretty self-explanitory.

Lady, OP never said anything in the complaint about rats or mold... I'm starting to think you are a part of the trolling crew.

Lady, you missed the point.

The only poster here with any sense and any civil manners is TxAgent. The rest of you losers - LadyScot, norman bates, HeatherBirdLady, et al - clearly are sociopathic shut-ins with nothing better to do than yap yap yap about other peoples' legitimate problems. LadyScot, in particular, fancies herself some kind of advice expert; shes a nutcase with dual personalities who needs some serious head-shrinking. Why someone doesn't take the whole inbred lot of you and deposit you on some God-forsaken remote island until you end up eating each other and doing the world a favor is beyond me. NO ONE CARES WHAT ANY OF YOU THINK. You're l-o-s-e-r-s. Get it. Just shut the hell up and quit sticking your noses in other peoples' complaints.

OMG! Once again, losers LadyScot and Irish are giving so-called advice when no one asked for it. Don't you two losers have lives? Get a pet or something. Irish is a mental dwarf who gets his jollies between classes at 'school' taunting legitimate posters...it's probably a 'size' issue he has, so he takes it out on people anonymously. And LadyScot is a documented psycho who makes up complaints, then argues with herself. My advice: If you see either of these two non-entities posting on here, just ignore them. They probably won't go away, but they won't get their daily giggles and grins annoying actual posters. And why haven't these two idiots been banned from this site anyway?

Ladyscot:

I would like to say that I lead you back to square one, but this is a quite a bit of truth you are unwilling to accept:

1) You ignore my statement about rodents and pests hiding. I've only seen one rodent during my years of experience, but I have seen countless indications that they are getting into the food. They simply don't come out when they know people are around.

2) You really thing even a novice cook leaves the mold on the food before they serve it? They pick off what they can and hide the rest with sauces and scorches.

3) Refusing to accept the FACT that improper holding temperatures cause a THE MOST food borne illness outbreaks is a decision your own ignorance has made. The only reason I even began to comment on this complaint is because too many consumers think like you and don't realize how severe it can be (check my very first sentence, which encourages them to contact an authority) and don't bother to contact the health department.

LadyScot plays victim, and it is both disgusting and hilarious.

LadyScot: I initially tried to remain as objective as possible throughout all my comments. I tried over and over to just state the facts, yet you continued to criticize my comments with statements with about your own personal practices. I provided verifiable rebuttals, which you chose to ignore. I repeatedly said that restaurants must be held to a higher standard than your (non-professional) opinion, yet you still degraded me.

Your demeaning comments left you wide open for attack. If you sincerely want people to be less defensive when responding to you, I suggest you begin wording your posts in a more neutral manner.

As the reign of LadyScot and her needless posts nears an end, the faint sound of a victory bell resonates in the ears of those eager for peace and quiet from the recent uproar of trolls, argumenative entities and LadyScot. For today, my friends, you have been warned against this Subway store, and as complaint posters, you have been restored the opportunity to post without ridicule or attack from frequent post queens like LadyScot. LET THIS DAY BE REMEMBERED. YOU. ARE. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

You are only allowed one "victim" card per complaint post. Or is this your use of the "hypocrasy" card?

There is a fine line between trolling and replying, a line you have yet to discover. Take the weekend to re-evaluate your approach when you decide to invade a complaint and I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised at your ability to be less of a person whose main objective is to troll, ridicule and argue over things that you are less than qualified to contest.

Here we see a wild LadyScot, who tells people to ignore her posts if one does not like them, at the same time replying to a post she, herself, did not like. The wild LadyScot's credibility is now shot, and we anticipate her barrelling back into her solidary cave.

I WAS A SUBWAY OWNER AND WAS TAKEN TO FINANCIAL DISASTER. THEY EVEN TOLD A POTENCIAL BUYER THAT I WOULD SELL FOR $30, 000.00 . I BUILT A NEW STORE AND TRIED TO SELL AFTER THREE YEARS BECAUSE IT WAS COSTING ME MONEY TO KEEP GOING. THE DEVELOPMENT OFFICE TOLD ME THAT RESTURANT EQUIPMENT IS JUNK AND I WON'T GET MUCH MONEY FOR IT. THEN WHY DID I HAVE TO PAY SO MUCH TO BUY IT! I WOULD LIKE TO HOOK UP WITH A GROUP TO GO AFTER THESE THEIVES TO RECOVER MONEY. MY E-MAIL IS lorrsult55@aol.com IF ANYONE HAS ANY INFO PASS IT ON.

LadyScot:

You stated that you will live longer than me because you I assumed I was germaphobe. It was personal attack that was both presumptuous and degrading. If you are compelled to continue injecting your un-knowledgeable 'opinion' into factual discussions, you had better be prepared to be put in you place.

I agree here with LadyScot, purely because the other posters comments are rediculous. Of course there is nothing wrong with eating a pizza left in the oven. If it had any germs on it, then the heat would have killed them, and it is very safe from harmful germ accumulation whlie shut in that oven for at least a day. Anybody who cannot understand this simple fact is a ###. She also has very concise, and well worded posts. The rest of you write essays that are neither here nor there.

LadyScot is not going to stop. Ever. I request the ability to instate moderation queue before any of her posts are submitted. If only...

Stop telling people to ignore posts if you aren't even capable of taking your own advice.

Okay.. some people clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say, so I'm going to try one different approach and then stop. I'll ignore the fact that all contradictions that assume the food was heated enough to kill bacteria when they aren't even holding at the proper temperature. I'll start with two words:

Financial Liability.

Businesses are usually more concerned with protecting their money than they are with making you sick. Whether you agree with or not, people will try to sue a business whenever they see an opportunity.. or they'll at least try to get a free meal. My first long term job was managing a Subway, and the number #1 thing money strapped customers will throw at you is a stomach ache caused from eating at your restaurant (sorry, no data to back that up).

Restaurants MUST follow the strictest sanitation procedures to protect themselves so customers can't blame the business if they get sick. The possible lawsuits can not only leave an independent business owner financially crippled, but can also bring down an multinational brand name (remember Chi Chi's? The outbreak that destroyed them wasn't even their fault!).

So I'll repeat what I said in my first comment in a different context. Management needs to be notified, because IF there is an outbreak (or even one really adamant cheapskate) and they are found to be holding products at an improper temperature, it will pretty much rule out any other possible contamination sources and the owner and possibly the entire brand name will take the hit. That store needs to retrain their employees to suck and up and nuke their meatballs for another 4 minutes.

I just can't stand their commercials. They need a new advertising campaign.

Norm is that you?

AAHHH REAL MONSTERS!

It's called fast food, it's like going to mcdonalds. [censor] you people are stupid.

Subway in Cross Lanes WV has the worst management I have ever seen in fast food. I never get the bread I want. They are always out of multiple toppings. Any food that needs prep work don't expect them to have it. I will not go back. A business that is this bad does not deserve your money. Here are some examples... OF CROSS LANES SUBWAY...
3/20/10 around 6:00 PM tried to get a sub the employee told me they forgot to make bread, but come back in 2 hours and we will have some.
The new chicken salad sub is out and I have tried to get it 3 time, every time the employee says we didn't make any.
5/27/10 the sign said open went in at 11:00 at night and the employee said the registers not working. Sorry
5/28/10 they only had one kind of bread and no chicken salad.
I have never get all the topping i wanted, im talking hundreds of times.
The employees they are employing look like three strike felons Rings in there noise, tattoos on their face.

Never mind the temps, lol. I've always gone to Blimpie. So I decided what the heck, I'll give subway a try. Afterall, many people I know
brag about it. Well I decided to try a small sandwhich just to test out the waters. I ask for a turkey club small. She puts one slice of turkey
on it and says, "okay what else do you want on it?" I said ummm, what about the turkey? She says, "ohh its on there." I said yea umm one slice?
I said I might as well ask for bread with mayo on it. Whats the point. It's no wonder more than half the subways across the US have closed. Blimpie
puts 3-4 layers of turkey on it. But one slice? Holy crap thats bad. I hear managers on here say, "dude, we can't give you piles of stuff on it." Ummm okay,
but a normal sandwhich is usually 3-4 layers. Not one slice! Thats pretty cheap. No wonder Burger King has the slogan, "have it your way!" Subway should
take a lesson from them. Franchises that do well, aka McDonalds, BK, Blimpies, ect. They concentrate on not only quality, but also quanity. Have you ever
had a burger at BK that was skimpy with almost nothing on it? Never! They load it...!