Coleman Worldwide Moving
Reviews and Complaints

We would give zero stars. I have been fighting with this company for a refund or claim pay out since December . Their driver knocked our neighbors tree down upon arrival, never supplied an inventory list as required. At the time of delivery in Illinois from Texas several of our items were stolen damaged or parts missing. We filed a police report and Coleman Allied refused to take the investigators calls or respond to our claims. when I refused to sign the paperwork for delivery because the driver tried back dating paperwork that should have been given to me at pick up he got in my face and threatened to not leave my home unless I signed. I was home alone with a newborn and had no other choice but to sign. Margie L has been working on our claim for months and has been useless through the process. The company kept giving us deadlines of when they would respond and then never would. they have closed our claim saying they did nothing wrong. Our inventory list mentions none of large items moved and was not in sequential order. since the list was not provided at the time of pick up I had no way of correcting this. We had a whole set of golf clubs stolen, a generator, broken grill, broken crib etc. Our large sectional came back damaged with scratched feet, my peloton was dragged into the truck and not wrapped. Coleman Allied are thieves. Do NOT USE them or any of the allied sister companies.

when our overseas household goods arrived, the first notable event was two member of the moving crew got onto a physical altercation in the middle of the street as my wife and I watched. The crews are unprofessional and foul mouthed. The older.movers spend the day ripping on the younger ones. this method of leadership deteriorates their team and ultimately effects their ability to effectively perform their duties. Our Nontemporary storage was in inexcusable condition as we discovered many of our pieces of furniture were molded. All mded pieces were returned to the moving company as restitution would be expected. Coleman moving company and Eagle Claims offered to clean and return the molded furniture. I provided a provided a PowerPoint including detailed photos of molded items, and comparable values. over $9000.00 in furniture we have collected over the years, some from other countries was destroyed. Coleman offered just over $3000.00. Upon receipt of salvaged items, or Bed had not been professional cleaned as promised, was thrown in a small moving truck on top of there equipment creating more damage and the bed supporting structures and rails are missing. I contacted Coleman about the missing rails and they said they would check the warehouse and get in touch with me. It has been 5 days and not even a call. this company has been a night are to work with, rarely answering emails and the departments I need to speak with are never available or in "meetings". This business is poorly managed and led. We are still in the midst of this furniture claim and this has been ongoing for months.

If I could I would give this company 0 stars. I only used this company because the military has a contract with them. I had my things moved across state line from Texas to Maryland. First I wanna start by saying the works did not come with masks on there face especially when we are in a time during pandemic. I stayed far away from them while they moved my things with my mask on. I could have refused the serious but I needed my things to be taken and I was on a time crunch to get to my location in Maryland. They got people off the stress to move my things but only the driver was legit. When my things arrived in Maryland the works did not even know which things belong to me. I had to tell them these aren't my boxes they're aren't my lamp and so on. Then I noticed I was missing 3 boxes and my luggage. There response was oh you will get paid for it. That's not the point the point is I had Sentimental things in those boxes. My military gear were in those boxes and no one can be held accountable for it. The driver says he never seen those boxes when it's clearly on the inventory sheet. THE MILITARY NEEDS TO STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM! I KNOW THEY MUST BE THE LOWEST BIDDER. But COVAN NEEDS LOSE THE CONTRACT WITH THE MILITARY. And the military needs to take care of there service members. No one is held accountable. No one can locate my things. And all I'm being told is you can get paid for it. They have some crooks working for this company and customer's and service members BEWARE. If you moving across state lines do the move yourself if you can. This company and their employees are thief's.

This move experience was a nightmare. The woman who came to give the quote misrepresented what they would do to prepare and wrap my furniture. The driver showed up with two completely inexperienced packers or wrappers who had no idea how to move or prepare. My white sofa was dragged through the puddles of mud and rain. The furniture pads they put on and supposedly taped came off immediately. The driver was able to back the truck up to our gate after the company charged a shuttle fee. I'm trying to confirm a refund for that. They stole or lost a n expensive vacuum. My boxes were mixed up with another persons with no separation. I had to keep saying that's not mine, or that's m8ne. I had to race to Belton to get the poles to my shelving units, which would have been worthless without the poles. I'm missing articles. The two he brought to load my large furniture pieces were high schoolers, no experience and one weighed maybe 80 lbs. Coleman is getting rich off military moves and they don't give a crap about their service. The driver lied and said he had a brake job on the day I was scheduled, then he let it slip that he had tried to get them to load for him, so it was a lie. We didn't finish until 9 pm and myself and two friends worked as hard as they did or harder. This company is crooked, a big liar and a scam artist. As usual the government doesn't care who they give the tax money too. No accountability. No Responsibility. I am still recovering and this was very traumatic. I am glad I moved my truly valuable and sentimental things myself or I'm sure they would be lost forever. Horrible, horribleness.

my entire move was a nightmare and executives and driver all fabricated stories to cover for the delayed delivery. It started with the packing. the individuals they sent to pack did not pack even a 1/4 of the stuff they were supposed to. I was told it would take one day to load me, it took two 12 hour days because the loading crew had to pack what the packers didnt. Then, after i was loaded in Virginia headed to Texas, the driver took the truck and went to New Jersey because he told me "he didn't want to waste time in Texas before I got there". Instead, come to find out, his physical for his license expired and YES Allied Coleman let him load my stuff anyway knowing it was going to expire and he couldn't get into the DMV in NJ to get it on record so that he could deliver my goods. I was TOLD that the driver would deliver on the 6th. he showed up on the 9th. I was told by a manager that they would cover my hotel and food for those days, today i got a notice they would give me 100 dollars. In addition, i had dents, scratches, broken furniture and am just starting the claims process. Several of the items were sentimental pieces of furniture handed down through family. I have moved 5 times in the past 10 years, this was by FAR the worst move and the worst customer service i have ever had. DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY. I will be filing more claims to try to get compensated for some of the damage and trying to hold them accountable for the stated delivery, but i suspect it will take more action than just filing the claims. I repeat DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY to move unless you want your stuff damaged and to be misled about the process.

Disastrous Move! 40% of my items are STILL MISSING! Update 1: 11/8 | 13:07 (Backstory) My move from New Hampshire took place on Saturday, Sep 18, 2021. The set delivery was Monday, Nov 1, 2021. The origin company shipped my belongings to Coleman Worldwide Moving (CWM) for storage purposes (additional payment). Unknowingly, my shipment took place in two parts. I was never given notice of this. There was zero communication from the origin company nor updates from CWM in regards to the transit of my items after they were initially loaded in the truck (and I assume crated). (Communication): I had to call four different times to inquire and make sure that everything was on schedule and the first time no one had a clue about a shipment. When I called back the following week (Oct 25th), they said some of my items arrived. I called at the end of the week to follow up and "everything" was there. (Delivery Day): I called to verify when the movers was going to come since no one reached out to me, and finally they said they would call when they left the warehouse. I finally get the call, and when they arrive they start bringing everything in. It already appears like some stuff is missing, and when they announced that they were finishing up, I said "That's not possible, where's the rest?". Several large items, like night stands, storage bins, gaming systems, sound systems, bar stools, military records, awards, and decorations were amongst the lost. Several items were damaged and many things cannot be replaced. I am still waiting for an update. *I reached out to Allied Corporate and they have shown great concern and working with me to find my items. The claim is underway.

DO NOT HIRE THIS COMPANY. I have waited to post a review until our lawyer tried to seek a settlement for us. I would have to write a book to really tell you how bad our experience was so this is a very brief summary. We moved from Kiawah Is SC to Charlotte NC. Coleman store stored our furniture for 9 months. Upon delivery it went from bad to worst . 80% of the items they did deliver were damaged, water marked, or soiled. Missing were 7 expensive rugs along with, outdoor furniture, antiques, etc... after hiring a lawyer to write a letter 3 months after getting no response from Coleman. Someone finally was poked enough to look for our stuff. They delivered the outdoor furniture along with some other miscellaneous missing items. No rugs. 2 more months going back and forth. A month later they came with 5 rugs 2 were mine. They have now sent a FINAL settlement offering an amount for damaged items and paying for none of my still missing rugs along with some antiques which they were provided pictures and receipts. They have the nerve to say that I signed an inventory saying I only had 2 rugs. That is possible the inventory had hundreds of items from my 6k Sq ft home. Problem is they have already delivered 10 of my 16 rugs. They have ridiculously said I signed an inventory for 2 rugs and they delivered 2 rugs. So are they saying that the 8 other rugs they delivered to me are someone else's rugs? Now we have to decide whether to go to litigation . A few other notes were. They delivered NO hardware to put any of our beds together, no hardware for my new $*** treadmill , my king sized mattress was folded in half and taped with duct tape. Too much to mention. DO NOT HIRE THIS COMPANY.

Horrible experience and I would never recommend. My issues are still not resolved. During my pack and move out the driver was literally destroying my antique bed frame. I asked him to stop immediately so I could get the head mover to move the bed instead. It was really stressful to see him man-handle and destroy a bed frame and set from 1930's. Well I got the shock of my life when my goods arrived. Movers on the other side of the country unloaded the bed frame and matching pieces. The driver on the pick up side had carved deeply into the matching nightstand "***" It was destroyed. Can you imagine my young son and neighbors see this in our driveway. This set was so sentimental as my father had given it to me as a gift. I had to pay for everything before I could make a claim about this. Coleman did nothing. No apology, no firing of the driver. The set had a limited value so I had to pay for most of the repairs. This was insane to me. I even sent pictures and a letter to the president of Coleman. Crickets-- no response. They should be ashamed of themselves. I claimed some damaged and a missing expensive SONOS speaker that I know was stolen by the driver. They said I could not prove it was stolen! It was listed on the taken goods. I had to buy a new one-- is that proof enough for them? No it wasn't. On the latest, I had my goods in storage for 6 months and had asked Coleman every month for months to get storage receipts so I could get reimbursed from my company. I literally sent countless emails, talked to multiple workers and offices and could never get a bill. They just blamed each other and I couldn't get a solution. I told them that I did not want to receive a big bill on moving day to pay for the storage. Well 3 years later I received a "demand for payment" notice for over $***. It is way too late to submit this to my company. I am stuck with no resolution or accountability for their incompetence. Avoid this company at all cost.

From start to finish, this move has been a nightmare. The load date was not "entered into the system" correctly only come to find out that the agent never updated the paperwork. They then had to "find packers" last minute and it showed in the number of broken items. Even on the load date, the movers packing packed with little care of attention to detail. (See claim form.). Then, when it came time to setting my move date (my items were in storage for a time), I missed a critical window because the agent did not understand and/or explain the process at all. I was also forced to sign a move addendum increasing my cost by close to $*** because of the "time of year," which was never in my contract or explained to me at the beginning. It took me reaching out to *** customer service to get the simplest answer of whether I needed to obtain metered parking on my own or whether *** would do it. (I have many email communications to verify the statements above.) Then, on delivery date, the driver did not know that they were unpacking. We ended up unpacking 90% of the boxes ourselves. I have moved across country 2x and internationally once, not including intrastate moves. I have never had such terrible communication and care, nor have I had so many items damaged or simply missing. Your tagline is a untrue. You are not "careful" at all and in fact are incredibly careless. I will be reaching out via social media and beyond to ensure others do not suffer this. All in, not including the damages and missing items, I have paid ~$*** for my move that should have been seamless. I have also paid for services you were supposed to provide (e.g., unpacking). Also, as an fyi, my driver told me that lighters were packed by *** packers, which is a fire hazard, could have destroyed lives and property. Again, careless. I will forever warn anyone against using your company. That said, the two lights in the darkness, were Madison at customer care and Steven, my driver, who both did the best they could under the circumstances.

We moved from Baltimore, MD to Madison, WI and the experience was horrible. We were linked up with Coleman via Allied Van Lines. The interaction of these companies with us were unacceptable. They were over a week late. Our moving coordinator never called us with updates when she said she should. We always had to find her. It was obvious that by the final day of delivery window, the truck with our stuff had not even left its point of origin yet. When it looked like our things would be late, the claims late department was rude and insincere. They offered us a mere $100 to help cover costs (keep in mind we paid almost $5000 for our move). My stuff eventually arrived AFTER I started my new job, making life extremely hectic. After changing out delivery date 4 times, they showed up a day early than the final delivery date (1.5 weeks late) unannounced. Our moving coordinator had no idea the driver was going to be there and was calling me/ emailing me/ texting me frantically while I was at my job's orientation to see if I was home to accept my goods. On top of that, the driver showed up and realized he had no crew to help him move things in. The communication to us and among themselves was extremely poor. Was it Allied's fault? Was it Coleman's fault? I am not sure. Many boxes were crushed. Things were broken. We are in the process of assessing the damage and are going to file claims, but I am worried because there is a form you sign with the delivery crew when everything is off the truck that seems to imply that all damages have to be found while the crew is still there. We will see how that goes. Part of what we paid for was for the movers to disassemble our furniture and then reassemble it in Wisconsin. They refused to reassemble it, saying they did not know how it was put together (this was a different crew then who packed us up back in Maryland). Instead, my wife had to help me put things together. Not ideal as she is pregnant. I will say the packing crew in Maryland did fine. They were nice and efficient. Regardless, not worth the rest of this nightmare experience. If it is truly Coleman's fault, be extremely careful with where Allied outsources your move. I would just avoid both companies. We will not being using them for our move next summer.

My job relocated me from San Diego to LA. I was excited that my job took care of moving costs, but after my experience with Coleman/ Allied, I would have rather packed everything myself. Load it on a Uhaul and drive it myself. I'll start with the minor issues first - the pick up day of my boxes (August 5th) Four employees showed up high. I could smell the weed immediately when I opened the door and could see the glazed over eyes. That didn't really bother me until the delivery day to my new apartment...2 boxes that should have been delivered to my storage unit in San Diego were delivered to my LA apartment. The boxes were clearly marked "STORAGE". And 2 boxes that should have been delivered to my LA apartment are missing. I'm in the process of filing a claim. Another minor issue I had was when I was unpacking all of my boxes, opened flour was laid on its side in a box (NOT WRAPPED AT ALL) so the entire box of kitchen utensils were covered in flour. The worse part of my experience is that the packers do not have power tools and do not remove anything hanging on the walls. The movers who came on August 5th, removed my key hook with keys and keychains on it. On the delivery day for my boxes (August 10th) Two of the same movers delivered my boxes...it wasn't until near the end of their shift that one mover was wearing MY KEYCHAIN. A gift from my boyfriend from Christmas. I checked the bag that the key hook and keys were in, and everything was there EXCEPT for that keychain. It's a Patrick Star keychain from the Spongebob cartoon. It was purchased in Canada (my boyfriend is Canadian) and I did play devils advocate at first and thought it could be his own Patrick star keychain. BUT I knew it was purchased in Canada and also that mine was missing. I was staring at him mounting my TV and he wears my stolen keychain into my new home. I didn't ask for it back in that moment because I am a young woman on my own...I don't test other people's crazy levels. Especially if he robbed me then wore it in front of me 5 days later. I know it's petty theft and just a keychain but I want to prevent this from happening to future customers. I reported it the next day (August 11th) to my moving coordinator only to hear back from her today 8/26 that should could not get the keychain back and now I have to file a claim. Very bad experience with the employees of this company.

Aliied &Coleman are simply awful ! Bad companies runned by bad and awful individual , from Headquarter til the last mover! My experience was a NIGHTMARE that i am still living , i just moved in April , still unpacking and putting furniture togheter and day by day i am finding stuff broken , smashed, scratched and busted!
They set me up to have it they'r way !
The day the truck /driver/3 movers showed up at my residence they unloaded furniture , matresses , headboard and boxes from onther previous move ( i have no idea from whom?) on my driveway ,when i asked what they were doing they said that they were making space for my move and that i was rude and my tone intimidate them .
After that , they brougth all theyr tools, moving blankets , boxes inside my house , when no needed it at all , my houseold goods were all packed and wrap ready to be picked up and loaded , i had to wait for them to bring all that stuff in my house then they were carryinh my furniture outside on the porch after i specifically told them i don't wanted my stuff to seat outside and of course it start to rain .
One of the movers without permission set up a loud speaker attached to his phone in my dining room playing loud music and dancing .
After that i saw the othet 3 movers building a slider on top my staircase with boxes , one mover up on top was shoothing down furniture and boxes to the other mover downstairs .
I saw one of my boxes saying : Fragile , Ceramic , (i have Ceramic from Italy when my husband and i were station there with the Navy) rolling down that slider , i got really upset , i went to reported to the driver while he was in the truck loading and trying to figure it out how to make space for my belongings , he became more rude that he was when he arrived and treath me to leave .That it was his excuse to leave on the first place because he knew he couldn' t fit my 13, 000 pounds of household in that quarter of space availble in his truck and him and the movers did everything they could to upset me and found every excuse to blame it on me ! THEY SET ME UP! The company knew that that date was my deadline to vacate the house so they couldn' t move it for next or couples days later .
THEY SET ME UP! When i peeked in the truck i saw one of my big wardrobe cabinet unwrapped from the original paper -blanket i asked him why he would done that but i had no answer , just onther treath to leave .
I went on the phone with the selling specialidt ( the individual i signed the contract with) and he said : i don't know why he unrapped your cabinet but i know that he' s leaving the job because you are upset and yelling )
Well , at delivery i opened the cabinet and found out the driver stashed in onther piece of furniture and few small boxes , of course because he didn't had enough space .
THEY SET ME UP! The driver under the excuse that i was upset and yelling left , left with only a quarter of my household goods on his truck !
The selling specialist on the phone with me , was covering for him , defending him and accusing me to have beign rude and upset , then he told me the next truck availble would be 3 days later unless i was paying onther moving company and providing them with the rest of my belongins to be tranported to theyr Whearhouse in order for them to load everything into a different truck and be delivered to me .
The moving cost for Allied/Coleman was :$ 7, 240.51
They costed me EXTRA :$ 700
for onther company to transport my household goods to them in they Whearhouse , making all my belongings be moved , touched , manipulated , load and unloaded many unessesary time !
THEY SET ME UP ! NO ONE from those companies ever called and asked me what happened , they just went to the course to have it theyr way .The selling specialist (Mister Jeffery R) specified to me the payment was supposed to be withdrawd from my CC at the end of the Unliading /Delivery but that didn't happened either , they made sure to take theyr payment 3 days before delivering and mister Jeffrey R answer was: i don't know why they took the payment earlier .
THEY SET ME UP! My husband is a Navy Veteran and suffered 2 strokes troughout this move , they knew it about it and still didn't care , they only care on how to robbed innocent people and trying to come out smelling like roses ! Criminals!
I need this companies : Allied-Coleman to remburse me the $700 i had to pay to tranport my household goods to them ,i need monetary rembusment for my damaged-broken furniture and i need monetary compensation for the emotinal distress caused to me and my husband .
Thank you for hearing me out and please , please , please DO NOT use this company , they rob you blind and they will make you from beign the victim into the villain .

Coleman Allied failed to deliver our belongings as per our contract. Part of our belongings are still missing. The company is non-responsive. Have a contract for moving our belongings from ***, La to ***, IL. The shipment was picked up on July 21,2020. The contract delivery date was between July 30-Aug 1. A partial delivery was made on August 12th. This delivery consisted of a bookshelf with no shelves, a box spring (no mattress), broken lamp shade, clothing and a few kitchen items. The company was non responsive to our request for information. I had to call headquarters to get any information. It was extremely difficult time. The move was for our son, who started law school in *** on August 17th. We had to purchase many items just to get him where he could start school. This was such a shock to not get his belongings. We were all devastated. The second partial delivery was made on August 21st. We are still missing about 1/3 of the shipment. The company paid us $900.00 for 12 days late delivery. Even though we still don't have our entire shipment, they cut off the $75 daily late fee after the first shipment. The company continues to be non-responsive when we ask about the rest of our things and the claims that we have filed. The claims are for reimbursement for items we had to purchase after the 1st shipment and for travel costs. The second claim is for the lost items. I also have requested a full refund for the move. We paid $3435.34 The terrible service has caused me and my family extreme duress. The service from the Louisiana office was the worst.

This company delivered my belongings and nearly all of them were damaged. They movers were rude and disrespectful. My HHGs were delivered on May 13th. We called Tracy, a few day prior to our deliver and she promised her best movers. She said they would bring door protectors. On the day of delivery the first truck didn't show up until after 1 PM. They never called us to notify us. They were late because instead of packing the truck on the Friday prior, they did it the morning of. This is the first reason why all my belongings were damaged. They were rushed. When they showed up they put the floor runner upside down and were slipping everytime they walked in. When the second truck showed up, close to 5 PM, we asked them to come back the next day because it was too late and it was beyond the working hours they had promised delivery. They came back the next day and they could not safely open the truck. We called the Keesler AFB inspector and the Coleman American Warehouse Manager. They were both appalled by how dangerously and poorly packed the truck was. It took 4 men to safely open the truck because of how precariously everything was packed. Nearly all of our high-value items were damaged due to the delivery company, and I have pictures showing how the truck was packed. At the end of delivery, the movers were unable to correctly fill out the paperwork. The general manager had to come out the next day to do it. Because of this, the high-value inventory items were never inventoried by the mover, and because of this majority of my claim is being denied. I feel due to the gross negligence of the mover, they should reimburse me for damages. Because of their employee's neglect, my claim is being denied.

Household items damaged during move. Household items lost. Household items not reassembled upon delivery. Utilized used boxes for moving. In late March I called Allied Movers for an estimate on my move from Seattle, WA to Reston, VA. They gave me a good estimate and I decided to move forward. *** from Coleman Worldwide in Fife, WA, was my 'move coordinator'. Everything seemed fine until packing day when I noticed that the packers brought a large contingent of used boxes which already had writing and other marks on them. Outside of that issue, everything seemed ok during the packing and loading process. Upon delivery approximately two weeks later, I noticed a fair amount of items coming off the truck with damageI've maintained a full list and photographs of the damaged items. Furniture was dropped and broken in front of me. Several pieces had holes punched through them or very serious scratches and scrapes. Original artwork was shipped without any form of protectionjust thrown on top of everything, apparently. *** the driver, advised that all items could be reported to the moving company for reimbursement/coverage. In addition, a box containing important documents and electronics was not delivered. After bringing everything inside, the movers departed without reassembling any of the furniture/items. Upon conclusion of this process, I attempted to contact ***, on multiple occasions, to begin the claim process without any success. My phone calls have not been returned and I have not been emailed a claim sheet. I would like to be compensated for the damaged items, the missing items, and reimbursed for the parts of the contract that were not fulfilled (boxes and reassembly). I am happy to follow the normal processes but do not appreciate being ignored by the company's representatives and will move forward with other avenues to pursue this matter.

Coleman has held on to my household goods and not released them to me for over a month. I am active duty military. In November my household goods were placed into storage at Coleman's facility in Fairburn GA. My items remained there while I was stationed in Korea for a year. Upon my arrival back in the USA. I requested for my things to be delivered to me on 05 Feb 2020. I was told that there was mold in my unit and that it has to be remediated before it can be released to me. It's been over a month and not a single person from Coleman takes my phone call, returns my phone calls, responds to my email, nothing. I am sleeping on an air mattress at home and I have no idea when to expect my furniture from Coleman. The employees are rude and give me the runaround in regards to my things. The file is - GBL# *** - for *** (5738) Please see email below from Mrs. Trisha *** with the local army moving office as she has attempted to help me in this matter but still we are getting no response: I'm trying to get a status update on the remediation of this shipment. It was originally scheduled as an NTSR & was supposed to be released from Coleman American in Fairburn GA on 2/5. The driver refused to pick up the shipment up due to possible mold on several items. I spoke with Cliff at Coleman on 2/6, and he stated it was reported to their claims department & they were waiting on a company to come in and have the shipment remediated. The service Member has called several times to inquire about a status update and when she could expect her delivery. I have not heard anything back from anyone regarding this shipment. Can someone please provide a status update? Has the shipment been remediated, and is it ready to be shipped to the Service Mbr? Also, is the Service Member entitled to an inconvenience claim? Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Blatant negligence in the treatment of our household goods and services First off, our household goods were moved under a military contract. The contract specifically stated that our household goods were to be delivered by the 14th of September. Only half of our goods arrived by that date. The other half, no one really knew where it was located. The second half was delivered a couple weeks later. That alone violated the contract in place. In addition, no one from the company felt the need to let us know that our goods were split shipped or even let us know the status of our goods. Second, when the second half of the shipment arrived, there were a few totes that arrived empty, half of our sectional couch never arrived. Many of the items that did arrive had significant water damage and mold. The mold levels were to the point that the items were unsafe to have in a house with two small children. We decided to load up the damaged items back on the moving truck and have them sent to the next warehouse in Washington state. The employees at that warehouse verified the items were indeed too damaged to salvage and were in fact destroyed. So far, we have lost thousands of items due to the negligence of employees who stored our household goods outside in the elements. We have proceeded to contact the company and have even filed claims. We can't seem to get in contact with anyone who seems to care or is willing help. The lack of care and communication has been absolutely despicable and appalling. The items that never even arrived were supposedly thrown out without so much a phone call or any type of notification to us, the owners. That in my book is theft. Who knows what really happened to our household goods. We will still continue to try and contact someone but so far it seems that our issue keeps changing hands between various supervisors and/or directors. This has been a complete nightmare.

Items requiring special consideration did not receive such and were damaged. Claims services did not recognize nor reimburse as promised for items. During initial walk-through with Coleman Worldwide Moving Agent, three major furniture items were identified as receiving special consideration. They required padding prior to transport. Every step of the way, padding was promised on the tail end (during pack-out, padding was promised from furniture movers. During truck load, padding was promised during warehouse processing. Items arrived with no padding and every single item therefore sustained damage.). These items were declared damage on delivery day and every procedure and protocol to damage-claim were followed. My Parts Box (Box #1) was lost. Parts boxes are critical items to any move, and its loss is detrimental to the entire shipment. In the end, I asked $300 for the Parts Box. In reality, between acquiring new hardware and the labor involved or hardware not found, the Parts Box was worth way more. I received nothing for the missing Parts Box. Eagle Claims Service did not consider these items according to their claim and rebuttal protocol. Eagle Claims Service would not return my emails or phone calls until the Military Claims Office became involved, and still will not return my messages without Military Claims Office intervention. Rebuttal response and offered compensation happened for one item and one item only after items were turned over to the Military Claims Office. Eagle Claims Service strategically waited and did not respond earlier; if they waited, it would be impossible for me to accept their compensation offer. After all avenues available to me since the Military Claims Office took over, Eagle Claims Service cut me a check for $175 less than the amount agreed upon in the military claims system (DPS). Eagle Claims Service has yet to respond to my inquiry regarding the discrepancy. Coleman Worldwide Moving and Eagle Claims Service put out strategy after strategy to thwart living up to every promise made, from initial contact to the present.

We moved on 3/6. I filed about 10 claims on 3/11 from damages incurred during the move. Haven't heard anything back from anyone about next steps. I understand its a trying time. That can't be an excuse 7 weeks afterwards. The Sales Rep, *** told us (verbally) we would be getting a semi with 4 professional movers. What showed up on moving day was 2 box trucks and 3 people. One who had only been at this job for less than 3 weeks. One who was a hard worker, but not a professional mover. One who was "in charge" but not doing much. A 4th person (sick) showed up after a little while. All of this led to disaster. Once they finally got the trucks to the new house, they propped the door open without telling me. They knew we had a dog, which got out into a new neighborhood she didn't know and it took a while to get her back. While moving things into the house, they scratched the wood floor. They didn't cover any floors in the new house until after I asked them to (after scratching the floor). They they kept breaking my furniture. One desk was broken in 3 places, rendering it useless. One desk was broken at the foot. One dresser was broken at the foot. One apothecary was broken at the wing. One coat rack was broken at the base. One side table was broken at the frame. One dining room chair was scratched at the seat. One dining room table was dragged and rubbed along an edge. One Armoir door was chipped. One sofa table leg was completely broken off. I filled out and sent all these claims on 3/11 and haven't heard from anyone. We called the claims company a week or two afterwards and were told "***" was handling our case. She never contacted us. Two weeks ago, on April 15th, I sent an email asking about the status and was told *** was our claims adjuster and we should be hearing from her. Never heard back. Sent an email this morning saying I was going to take more action and the only response I got was from the local office stating, "You can direct any legal notices to ***'s office. He is our general council. ***@colemanwg.com ***" This doesn't include all the damage they left at the old house that the new owners had to deal with.

I contracted with Allied Van Lines to move my property from Alabama to ***, Az. Their initial price was $5,500 plus. Upon arrival i was quoted a different price by someone in their finance office. He informed that my destination price was now $7,500. I informed him he was wrong and the driver told him i was correct in the amount of $6,500. Upon checking my property i found my television had been severly damaged and my refrigerator was missing from my house in Alabama. I was told to empty the refrigerator of all food items which i did with the assistance of my sister ***. I also turned off the water line to the refrigerator, but the driver and his help lied to my wife who stayed behind until she could no longer as we had to hit the highway and pickup our daughters at the airport to help us drive to new home. they assured her they would bring the refrigertor which is 6 months old. Also, they stole my government issued hearing aids, as iam a disabled veteran and needed them for hearing. They also broke my television but it appears it was hit with a hammer as it is broken throughout the screen with an epic center. We are missing our portable air conditioner which was in the room where most of the boxes we prepacked was located. Our bedroom bed has a large broken piece on the running board. This move has been nothing but a night mare. I asked Stephen Smith and Angela Cunningham on several occasions to please ship my refriigerator out to us and they quoted me a price of $2,400 which is almost half of what the regular move cost me. Stephen Smith left his black binder at my house and his movers packed it with my items. That binder contains other individuals personal informaton in it. These people created a move that is from hell. They have lied continously about the refrigerator and indicated the doors had to be remvoed in order to take the regrigerator out of the house. I purchased the refirge from Alabama Power and they delivered the refrige without any problems with the doors intact. Please assist us in getting our refrigerator out to us or have them compensate us for the loss of it. We have been living without a refrigerator for several days and as a diabetic i need a refrigerator to keep my diabetic meds in a cool place. thanks for your help. Nate ***.

Items picked up from *** KY on 6/11. Still not delivered. My belongings were picked up on 6/11. I have been repeatedly lied to about where they are. I was informed by Denise Sulzer of Coleman Allied in Louisville KY that they were picked up around 6/18 then she called on 6/22 to tell me they were never picked up but "are being loaded as we speak." Then on 6/26 she advised the are just now being picked up and will not arrive in CT until 6/30. She has not provided me with any tracking information. I emailed her 6/27 and she emailed me back stating she would update me on 6/30 but there may be another delay due to the upcoming holiday. I contracted with *** on 5/5 so this is not a last minute move and should be given priority. Horrible experience with them. The movers (*** and 2 others) were wonderful. Customer service is horrible. Have my belongings been lost or stolen? An investigation needs to be opened against their business practices. No accountability and seems the drivers can pick and choose what they load on to a truck. *** has no clue where my belongings are at any given time and *** has become mute about the issue. She sure was available when she was trying to gain my business. This move is costing me $3,453.70. I have an apartment I paid $1,288 for and cannot live in because my furniture is MIA. I am living with my Mom with my 2 animals which is costing me a fortune in gas, meals and other living expenses. They are offering me $100 a day for the delay which won't even cover half of the expenses I've incurred. The delivery spread was 6/17-24. Only now are they claiming the delays are due to Covid-19 when before they claimed the moving industry was not affected by Covid. Seems like a convenient excuse to use. I am writing this complaint on Monday, June 29. I want answers and I want my belongings delivered. I start a new job on 7/6 and was going to use this time to unpack and get settled. Moving is stressful enough but I've never dealt with such incompetence and a company so full of excuses but no one seems to really care whether I get my things or not. Sure they apologized but are not doing anything above and beyond to help me. I am so upset and have no recourse but to wait for them to release my belongings. I feel like they are holding my belongings hostage and I cannot do anything about it.

Info confirmed to us by Agent with estimate was disregarded by office management Requested credit card info to cover entire estimate total. David Smith, estimated move on 10/07 and confirmed this included entire household items, packing, labor, everything. If everything was not moved, it would be less since final move is based on weight. On 2/20 David was called and move was scheduled. Contact by Brandy *** requesting credit card info covering entire estimate amount to confirm move and being able to schedule like making hotel reservations to confirm room but given option to pay cash or otherwise after move and would receive actual cost prior to delivery. "This is a preauthorization of your estimated charges.. Actual charges will be finalized prior to delivery." This was not done. Moved on 3/20 to Tifton and advised by Joey, Move Supervisor, the cost should be much less due to items previously moved personally and items left behind. No invoice received. Checked credit card and $16,200 on Discover and $2,500 on VISA. Items were added after the move that were not moved. Entire estimate amount. Contacted Brandy ***, transferred to and spoke with Manager, Cliff ***, attempts to resolve failed. Was advised no refund would be forthcoming. Disputed charges with credit card cos but investigation unresolved. No accountability for misleading information. From time of estimate to date of move,two storage units were filled in Tifton with items moved personally to reduce weight. A grand piano and organ were moved by a separate company specialized in moving them. Many other items were left on property for new purchaser (i.e. refrigerator, book shelves, large yard tools, patio furniture, gas grill, patio heater, etc etc) Heavy items No consideration was given to communications between us and David Smith, Estimator, at time of signing contract. At end of move, my daughter was requested to sign a document certifying items move which was incomplete and unverified but was told there would be another document to sign after move was unloaded in Tifton. That document presented by Joey, Move Supervisor, also was incomplete but told it would all be transcribed so we could have a complete record. When document was received, items had been added that were not moved. Taking advantage of customers, senior citizens, is unacceptable and being held unaccountable for the information given to obtain the contract should have consequences. Attempts to reach a resolution for seven months to no avail. ***man should be made to make some effort to compromise. Documents available to corroborate this info and can be provided after scanning.

Full service move, many items damaged and Allied is interfering with the warranty process by withholding information We hired Allied for a full service pack and move from Boerne TX to Aurora CO. One of the crew was too ill to work - nearly passed out in my hallway and told me he was too sick to work (after all of them coming in with no mask), during a pandemic. Once we insisted that the crew wear masks and the sick person not enter our home, the driver became agitated, aggressive and abusive - using profanity, name calling, threats to take our stuff and mark as refused delivery. I was here alone with my daughter and had to ask my husband to come home from work - the driver was frightening to me. We could already see that some of our items were damaged, gasoline spilled on one of the chairs, including the blanket the chair was wrapped in. We asked the driver what happened and he started yelling that it was our fault, we must have packed gas (we did not pack any gasoline, we did not pack anything - Allied packed - but we did not have anything that needed gasoline either, we do not even own a lawnmower). Things were put in the wrong place, mis-labeled, unloaded very sloppily. We were so anxious about the entire process, them being sick, the profanity and yelling, we just wanted them to finish and go. When the driver left, he took all copies of the paperwork. We asked Karen M, our moving consultant for copies of the paperwork. It has been a month and we have not yet received the requested copies. Many of our items were damaged - a television crushed, pictures and lamps broken, an office chair broken, furniture legs damaged, and some hardware for the bed is still missing (the driver said, if you need a screw, take your a*** to Home Depot). We'd like to file a claim for our damaged items, but are unable to do so without our paperwork. Every attempt we make to get copies of the paperwork from the office is dodged. We have sent pictures of all of the damaged items to our moving coordinator, Karen M, but we still cannot get our paperwork, inventory list, shipping number. We paid extra to have Allied do the packing and also extra for zero deductible, but we can't even file a claim without their cooperation. Karen was aware throughout the day of the driver's abusive and intimidating behavior and potential Covid exposure - but we were told the crew was a 3rd Party contractor, Allied has no control over their behavior or how they manage Covid risk, and we had no choice other than to refuse delivery at a cost of an additional 7-8k to rent the trailer until Allied found another crew to unload - not an option for us financially. Pack date: 12/30 Delivery date: 1/6

On November 3, my husband signed a contract with Allied *** Worldwide Moving Company to move our household goods from ***, ***, TX XXXXX to ***, ***, TX XXXXXX. We have been collecting antiques for 51 years. We moved 12 years ago from ***, TX to ***, TX ad received no damage to our furniture. Twenty one pieces of our furniture were damaged. They loaded our furniture on 11/5 and delivered it to our new home on 11/6. They kept c oming into the house with our furniture and said "this piece didn't make it." We also found several pieces that had been glued back together with massive amounts of gorilla glue oozing out of them. They didn't tell us about those pieces. It cost us $14,234.92 to have our belongings moved and destroyed by their carlessness. Thy finished unloading our belongings on Friday evening, 11/6. On Monday, I called *** our consumer customer care person, to let us know how unhappy we were. My husband called *** our moving consultant. *** reached out to the claims department, asked them to get in touch with us. It was several days before we heard anything. No one from the company has been out to see the damage to our belongings. We tried to take pictures with my phone, but some of the pictures are not real clear. We do not have the equipment to download pictures on our computer. At first, we were given information for the wrong claims department & lost a lot of time before they gave us the infomation for the right claims department. My husband tried to file online, but halfway thru, the computer cut us off and we lost the information he put in. Our computer wasn't working right and we were unable to print the paper forms. We asked them to send them thr the mail. *** sent the forms. I sent the forms off certified mail on 11/4. When we didn't get the receipt back or hear anything from *** in several weeks, I went to the PO to check to see if it had been delivered. The PO said it had not been delivered yet. I faxed the claims department a copy of the claim on 12/2. On 12/28 I finally got an email that they received the claim I mailed. My husband tried to file a complaint with the attorney general on 1/25. They said to file a claim with *** I went to that website, but didn't see a place to file a complaint. We have spend hous trying to get this claim resolved. On 1/28, our claim adjuster, *** filed, said she had our claim & ws going to review it. I emailed her this morning fo an update, but we have not heard back. We have been bounced fromperson to person with this company. Would appreciate it, if you can help us get this resolved.

This moving company broke multiple items in the process of the move and has not responded to multiple attempts to file a complaint for recompense. One guy was on the top stair and he threw the boxes to another kid a couple of steps down who threw them to the other guy a couple of steps down. They were obviously too lazy to walk upstairs and get a box and walk it downstairs. The unloading progressed the next day in Aiken, my wife told the three guys who were unloading where she wanted the rugs, beds, etc. placed throughout the house. Later in the day the beds were not set up and the rugs were not unrolled so I reiterated to one of the kids who was standing in the bedroom that we needed to have the beds set up. He looked at one of the bed frames on the floor without examining the bed frame and said that some of the parts were missing. I looked at the same bed frame and told him I thought all the parts were there. I left and went into another part of the house. A few minutes later I returned to that room and the bed frame was still lying on the floor, I went looking for any of the workers, but they were nowhere to be found. All three workers including the driver were gone. They had simply left without saying a word to us and just drove off leaving three beds unassembled on the floor, the dining room table unassembled and all the rugs still rolled up in the middle of each room. My wife and I were stunned and in shock at what had happened...we could not believe what had just occurred. When I regained my composure, I called Shannon Davis who coordinated our move and told her what had transpired. She assured me some guys would show up the next day to put everything together. They did come the next day and fix the beds (there were no parts missing), rugs, and dining room table. When I told them what had happened, one of them said, "Was it getting late?" I said it was and he said, "Not surprised; they do this pretty often". Here is a list of the damaged/lost items. 1. lost a black shiny duffel bag outlined in red which was inadvertently put on the van...it contains personal information and I really would like to have it tracked down, if there is anything you can do to facilitate that 2. broken dining room chair leg 3. workers apparently used an electric screwdriver (rather than a manual screwdriver) when attaching the mirror to the dresser and drilled all the way through the mirror part for three of the four screws 4. that same dresser had both top edges damaged 5. the front of one of our curio cabinets was pulled away from the cabinet because, again, the guys were too lazy to pick up the cabinet and carry it...instead they dragged across the carpet and thus pulled the front away from the body of the cabinet 6. vanity stool leg broken 7.several of my wife's antique decorative Ethan Allen birds that had special Ethan Allen numbers, were broken. 8. one of the metal legs that support the metal slats on the master bed is missing (one of the guys who came out and put the beds together took a picture and said he would have that taken care of, but I have yet to hear from anyone regarding that). I did file a claim with your company regarding these items, but I did not stress the importance of the missing duffel bag. I have sent an email to a regional manager and called Ken ***, who is VP of this area, and I have yet to hear anything in return.

Coleman sold us a service and we fot something completely different. We were promised the best moving experience and it became the worst nightmare! We hired Coleman/ Allied to transport our home furniture and personal belongings from *** to *** after my husband got job offer that required relocation to *** We contacted many moving companies and decided on ***/ Allied after Mr. *** (Coleman's Sales Rep) assured us he would provide us with the best stress-free moving experience. Guaranteed no delays, furniture reassembled at delivery, all empty boxes removed by them, nothing lost or broken because our belongings would be locked in a container. Many times over phone conversations we reinforced to *** that we needed our delivery to be on *** confirmed every time that the delivery date would definitely be on *** so we rented an apartment starting from this date, already paying for rent from the 22nd on, with electricity, gas and internet. We made all arrangements according to ***'s confirmation for delivery on the *** For the first time, on *** after having all our furniture and belongings already stored in a ***'s warehouse, we get an email from *** saying that he could not guarantee the delivery date for the *** and instead, he had a delivery WINDOW any day between *** and *** We tried calling him many times and he would not answer our calls or return them. He was avoiding us and we had to contact the office to find someone who could help us at this point. As we explained to the office, we couldn't accept this delivery date change after making all arrangements and confirming the delivery date many times before. After speaking to *** a their office, we find out that our delivery wouldn't be before *** she also said that we signed something that said about the delivery window. Yes we did, but *** guaranteed us that within that window the delivery would be on the agreed date: the *** We had to pay for hotel between the *** and *** which ***'s Customer Service refused to pay, claiming that the delivery was not late. Well, at this point we were very stressed out, didn't our delivery was late and we had extra unexpected expanses with hotel, food, etc. Our delivery finally arrived on *** and to my surprise, there were 2 guys in a small U Haul truck. We had hired Allied, not U Haul... all our boxes which were supposed to be delivered in a locked container we just all loose in the truck, anything could be lost or broken. The movers were extremely rude and just wanted to do everything quickly and get out. As part of the package that *** sold us, they were supposed to reassemble all our furniture and remove all empty boxes. They refused to take the empty boxes, I had to call the office and their answer was that they would remove the empty boxes at an additional cost in case I was interested. I lost it at this point, this was sold to us as part of the package and it was one of the reasons why we chose this company! Anyway I got stuck with all the empty boxes. They began to reassemble the furniture and not much later they said they were done and did the best they could, handing me tons of bolts and screws and I asked them about them, they said those were extra. Needless to say they reassembled the furniture all wrong and my husband had to take it all apart and reassemble the right way way, using all the "extra" bolts and screws. At this point I wasn't aggravated anymore, I was actually in shock! I couldn't believe how horrible this experience became, going back to all the lies that *** sold us in the beginning. The company lies about everything and they truly don't care about their customers. I want them to at least pay for my hotel bill, even though I am 100% dissatisfied with everything from beginning to end and really want my money back. They charged me *** to deliver my personal belongings in a U Haul truck and had 2 rude men just dump all my stuff and leave! And 2 days late! This is a rip off!

from inventory of our move, done over the phone, wrong size truck sent, charging us for additional truck and receiving 2nd truck 2 weeks later. Spoke w/*** worldwide moving in April,2019 for a move from Monroe, LA to Ft Myers, Fl. Received a call from *** to do an inventory of my household Items for move. Caller explained they did not have anyone in my region to come to house and do inventory. *** became our move coordinator XXX-XXX-XXXX ext XXXXX. I packed home. Agreed service dates were 5/9 For pickup & delivery of 5/15. ***'s staff seemed to have different move dates causing me a lot of stress keeping THEM on task. When mover arrived, late, there were no loaders scheduled as we then learned, *** did not employ any loaders in our area. This was also the same for someone to do inventory!This was a lost day for loading. Driver, very nice, could only tag inventory. Driver arrived in smaller truck already half packed and we could tell truck was too small for our move. He insisted he'd get it ALL on truck. Day 2, mover arrives and we had to wait for 2 loaders to drive 4 hrs to help load. I stated my frustrations w/Miss *** and the trucks size. By evening truck to small. Buyer of home was moving in that evening. I had to drag remaining items to garage. Canceled flight to Florida, pay difference, and wait for the next day, day 3, for another truck to pick up items. Soft side truck arrives and 2 unprofessional movers whipping my items onto truck. First truck arrives to My home on 5/15. 2nd truck does not arrive until 5/25 of which he marks paperwork as delivered 5/19. I was not happy about that. I continued to remain in conversation w/Miss *** & informed her that my husband & I were not paying for 2nd truck. *** was selling services to an area, Monroe, LA that they could not supply staff for inventory or loading. Our 1 day move took 3 days, plane cancel fee & a lot of emotional stress. July 25 I receive *** past due invoice notice for $948.80 for 2nd truck. I called *** and spoke to woman who was new but would have her superior call me back. I do not remember speaking to anyone after that. On 2/13 I receive a collections notice from *** & *** XXX-XXX-XXXX, acct # XXXXXXXX. I called and spoke w/Miss *** She said she cannot do anything w/my account, I must speak w/*** about this balance. From 7/25 *** pass *** notice, I called *** who sent notice. She is rude and tells me she's sent multiple letters I owe (Of which I did not receive) & I must talk to collections agency. Collections agency said not true, only *** can make changes to balance owed. I've asked for Miss *** supervisor to call me. She never has. I've recorded from 3/2 to 3/31/XXXX X different people to call me and NO One has returned my call or email. This is a horrible company. No customer service even at the management level. I have spoke ***4 times in March to keep her aware of my attempts to speak w/someone at ***. The last conversation Miss*** & I had was 3/31. She said to keep her posted, that she is documenting our conversations. On 3/31 my husband called *** w/***. She was rude to my husband. *** asked to speak with her manager but *** said she was on phone. *** stated he wanted a call back from manager today. No call back It is April 1,XXXX XX:XXpm and he has not heard from manager. That makes a total of 7 attempts for *** to respond. I promptly paid as asked for the move in May $4,396.57 which was more than quoted to me, $4120.25. However, my husband & I do not feel we should be billed $948.80 for all the mistakes *** made for selling services with not employing someone to do a proper inventory, providing loaders in area of service, delivering products 10 days late, as well as me to pay penalty on rescheduling my flight because of their indecent way of providing this service This move took 3 days. When it should have taken 1 day. We should not be charged the additional $948.80 Thank you for your help.

Less than year old /very well kept furniture ruined through negligence. This company does not reimburse appropriately and will not listen to reason. When this packing company came to pack my household goods they were unprofessional and mishandled my belongings. I purchased a sleep number King iLE 360 Smart Bed in December along with protective cover for the mattress to keep the warranty in tact. When these movers packed my pristine condition bed they told me that they did not bring a mattress bag or box and there was no room in the crates because they did not bring enough. When this bed arrived, there was a line gouged down the middle of the bed with shards of wood still lodged in it from where it was clearly pulled down the side or around the corner of one of their crates. I sent the purchase invoice as proof of recent purchase as well as an invoice for the new part of the bed(these beds have a lot of moving parts and are relatively modular so the whole bed doesn't need replacing) showing that the part is $700 and sleep number only sells the part if install by one of their technicians is also purchased for an additional $180. Coleman movers claims department employee Rhonda Rogers sent me an offer for $200 on the basis that it could just be sewn back leaving a random seam in the mattress or patched. Either way, if i made a warranty claim in the future, i couldnt longer express the care i take for this bed as it clearly has a janky fix at best. In October i purchased brand new reclining sofa and loveseat from Rooms To Go for $3400 and had them deliver them to my living room. They were not up against a wall at all and were never moved from where the delivery personnel put them until Coleman movers came to pack them for this same move. Once again when the movers were packing the couches they informed me that they did not bring enough of the brown padded wrapping paper or enough of the clear plastic wrap to properly protect the couches. I also witnessed the movers drop the couches while carrying them multiple times as well as literally tossing one couch on top of the other to get them into the crate! When they arrived, the "leather" is scuffed completely off in multiple places, the feet on the bottom are ground down from being dragged on cement, one recliner is a bit crooked and pops back into place about half way into the reclining. Additionally, each end seat portion of the couch is now loose from the base and the other seats. You can wiggle it all about and it feels sloppy in use. For my less than year old, not having a scuff on them couches, they offered a total of $700 between them. Even though they took them from pristine to far from good condition, they claim that is a fair price. The sheer and purposeful lack of care coupled with blatant disregard for proper packing procedures and my belongings have now ruined over $4k of pretty new furniture that i am stuck with now. AT BEST, i get some questionable patchwork and am left with heavily diminished value of my belongings. Even worse, my warranties are now in jeopardy because of these damages which is worth even more money and heartache. I provided proof with real invoices for my claims, this isn't just me making up random numbers that sound good to me. The offer was insulting and frankly a joke. When i expressed my concerns to the claims adjuster, Rhonda Rogers, she sent back a short email that, paraphrasing, says if you don't like it then you can take it up with the military side of cliams(this is a military PCS move). I'm only allowed to make one rebuttal, but Rhonda's snarky response to my concerns only proves that this company wouldn't consider it anyways. This isn't the first move that they have broken or lost my furniture and they played this same game with me back then as well. The claims department can't for a second put themselves in our shoes. If i was paid thousands of dollars to move Rhondas stuff and broke a bunch of it, offered some sad joke of compensation, she would expect/demand a suitable payout just like i am. Instead, they're just a corporate machine that doesn't care in the sligtest.