Forest River
Reviews and Complaints

Bought 6/23/2017 We had problems the first hour and 50 miles from the dealer. Colerain of Indianapolis. poor prep and delivery and most of all poor Manufacturing by Forest River.

We had a quick tour of the unit, but no real indoctrination of anything. This was our 4th new camper, but our first Class C. By far the worst camper we have every bought and is our first Forrest River product.

After setting all day and finally getting our unit at the dealer in Indianapolis, we stopped for the evening. Only to find that the latch broke on the bedroom TV and bent the hinge and was only a 5 lb pull latch for a 12 lb TV and door. Also we turned the water on at the campground only to find it still had antifreeze in the system and tanks and the water filter was never put in. The 110 service was not working and the GFI was blinking. reset it and power came on and did not seem right on the reset and it quit several times and kept blinking when it was on.
I replaced the GFI myself and then was asked it I tested the GFI. It says right on it replace if blinking, and it would not stay on.

This unit was not right in the first 50 miles we have owned it and now it is 2 weeks and we are not getting reimbursed when I was told to call a mobile service company while on vacation. it was 4 days until they could get out to our unit. Meantime water was running from under or cabinets and also into the bottom storage cabinets outside. I removed the inspection door and found the fitting on the water heater was dripping.. Tried to tighten it, but had to wait for it to cool down to get a good 1/2 turn on the nut. I noticed what appeared to be black mold on the board the water heater was setting on. This was July 2nd. The the next morning while the unit was even cooler, I got another 1/4 turn on the nut as there was some moisture on it. That seemed to stop it and meantime I had removed bottom drawers and put a fan blowing under the cabinet to help dry things out after soaking up what I could. This continued into Wednesday July 5th.

We had a list of items that were wrong with the unit to include a low tire caused by a valve stem extension not installed correctly. Also the generator had not run correctly from the dealer and I was told to put additive in the fuel to clean it out. This is a brand new unit. Generator only had .4 hr on it. After 10 hours on it still runs rough now and then. Had the same company check it out and it ran good that day after setting 5 days.

Now I am not going to get reimbursed for a service call I was told to make to check these items out. I even notified Forrest River that I had stopped the leak on the water heater when I got it stopped. They did not tell me to cancel the call.

First day. Air bags one was 12 lbs and the other one was 21 lbs

Bought and replaced the GFI.

Coach door needed aligned, I fixed that.

Stove hood light bulb burned out.

You can see daylight under the slide outs when out.

1 TV remote was issued for two TV's ? It would not work either so I bought 2 universal remotes and they work great.

Had to adjust outside cabinet latches to be tight.

2 LED lights not working under cabinet. My wife found and showed he dealer. They were wired backwards from the factory.

Generator still misses periodically. I'll take it to Cummings next time it quits. It did give a code, but didn't know what the blinking was. I do know now, no thanks to the dealer or Forrest River.

Still treating mold issue 7/11/2017 under the cabinets with Clorox spray as instructed by the tech that made the service call, I'm not being reimbursed on. It's working.

The generator surging caused the AC unit to run rough for a few hours after plugged in at the campground and then seemed to straighten out on its own.

So far I have made all the repairs to date and have not been reimbursed for anything that I should be. Also used my camping time to fix this unit while my family went to the beach and pool without me.

I have at least 14 hrs in repairs and not to mention aggravation and inconvenience of drawers and cabinet panels taken out to treat wetness.

All of this the first two weeks of ownership. I have a lot more pictures and documentation also.

I am considering contacting a lawyer at this point.

We have had nothing but problems with ours, which we bought BRAND NEW! The list of things that have broke or not met quality expectations is endless:

- motor to front legs to lift unit, stopped working after using only 3 times.
- Windows leaking
-shelves falling down
-rear jack motors not working
-front cap with major cracks and spider cracks.
- shelves in outdoor fridge collapse, cannot tolerate even holding a twelve pack
-awning does not roll up properly
- drain to septic and gray does not stop flowing with use of handles. Will be a slow flow, only way to completely stop is make sure cap is on.
-door hinges loose and placed on crooked to begin with.
-microwave door stopped opening properly and cracked trim around it.
-drain in outdoor kitchen does not drain properly.
-back up camera will not work

We have owned it for 1 year and it has been in the dealer for repair for 8 MONTHS of that. Forest River is so slow at getting parts to the dealer to do any repairs. They also tried to deny covering some of the repairs while under our one year manufacturer warranty! Essentially staff told me my complaints were petty and there will be some "shake down in the first year where these things will happen".

The unit also pulls poorly. Lots of "bucking". Plus, the pin box design is horrible. If we have to make a tight turn, it has hit the box of our truck side and damaged it!

Beware, we have learned our lesson the very hard way and will never purchase another Forest River product.

We have had so many issues with our first year things leaking, breaking and not working properly. We took them all back to the dealer and they were "FIXED". The floor came completely out and broke on a trip now the slider is broken now will cost us about 5000 to fix when the trailer is not worth that to begin with and you wont cover it however we came the first year and said something was wrong. We will never purchase again same with our friends and warn everyone about this cheap trailers.

Our appointment for warranty work was scheduled for Thursday June 22, 2017 at 9am in Elk Grove, California off Florin Blvd. Prior to us leaving we checked with Thomas regarding the length of time they would need to keep our trailer. He promised to get right on it since we bought the trailer from RV Travel World. We indicated to him that we would wait at another location for word on the time frame so we would know to stay a day or 2 longer and pick up our trailer. By Saturday evening no one called so we went home Sunday because, parts & service aren't open Sunday & Monday. We would leave messages and never once did they return our calls, all we wanted was an up date on our trailer, we used it once and the refrigerator stopped working. It's been nearly two weeks now still no return calls. We are not happy with their customer service, the person we were dealing with Thomas made a lot of promises and never kept one. RV Travel World is 80 miles from where we live. They are the dealership we purchased our Micro Lite Flagstaff DS21. Since we are being told from other dealerships in are area that sell Forest River, unless you've purchased from there dealership they won't do your warranty work. There is something very wrong with this picture. So, hypothetically, if we were to have bought a Forest River trailer from the East Coast and moved to the West Coast we're expected to take our trailer back to the East Coast for repairs? Bull crap! That's absurd if that's where the industry is going. This is July 3rd, 2017 and we don't have are trailer.

I tried to get a refund on the replacement of this air conditioner but got no satisfaction. I am including the emails from my conversations with Lisa Goodwin @ Forest River.

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 11:49 AM
To: Lisa Goodwin
Subject: RV Site - Sabre - Contact Us: "Air conditioner not installed correctly from factory"

Michael Canon [ [protected]@yahoo.com ] Michael Canon has sent the following message in regards to Sabre:

" Hello Lisa. We purchased a 2015 Sabre fifth wheel brand new from the factory. The air conditioner has never seemed to work properly right from the start. It has been blowing the breaker and freezing up a lot since we have owned it. I nursed it along until now. We went to Branson Mo. for two weeks this spring and the first time we went to use it, the compressor would trip the breaker right away. We never got it to work so we spent two weeks without air on vacation. On the way back home to Wisconsin, we stopped at the dealer where we had purchased it at Cheyenne Camping Center in Walcott Iowa and had it replaced. They said that the compressor was shot and that it was not installed properly from the factory. The frost sensor was not even hooked up and there was a hole in the duct that allowed cold air to go back up into the coils. The replacement cost us $928.33 and we feel that we should be reimbursed for this out of pocket cost. Please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks for your help in this matter.
On Monday, June 5, 2017 9:02 AM, Lisa Goodwin wrote:

Hello Michael,

Doesn't appear there was any contact to Forest River about this failure from either yourself &/or Cheyenne Camping.

Were there any pictures taken while repair was being performed? Did Cheyenne reach out Dometic which why we are not showing anything on file? Can you please supply copy of the invoice?

Your warranty actually expired 4/11/2015, but we will still review if we can be provided answers & copy of receipt.

Thanks

On Monday, June 5, 2017 10:51 PM, mike canon wrote:

Hello Lisa. I did take pictures on my phone of the frost sensor all coilded up and hanging down by the air filter and of the hole in the duct work allowing the cold air back up into the coils and i have included them in this email. I dont have access to a fax machine but i can mail a copy of the invoice to you if you provide an address. The contact in the service dept. at Cheyenne camping center is Ron Skiles. [protected]) He said that he contacted Dometic but they did not respond. He may also provide some info for you about the repair.

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:27 AM, Lisa Goodwin wrote:

Good morning Mike,
 
Thanks again for providing the pictures & information!
 
After reviewing this request for Forest River to cover for a replacement of A/C that was performed 5/08/2017, we will not be able to assist with any reimbursement. Forest River warranty is for one year from date of purchase, yours being 4/11/2014. Dometic would have two year warranty on the A/C.
 
If there was a factory installation error, it would’ve been noticed in first year of ownership. You mention noticing issue in latter part of 2016, which should’ve been noted to Dometic if you couldn’t have addressed until a later date.
 
Sincerely,
Lisa Goodwin
Sabre Parts & Warranty Manager
[protected]
 
On Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:42 PM, mike canon wrote:

Hello Lisa ! I must say that i am rather disappointed since i told you in my first email that we had trouble early on but that i nursed the ac along until this spring when we first tried to use it. It was not working properly from the beginning. It says on your website that customer service is your main objective. I have my doubts about that. This may be my last Forest River camper. We should not have to pay for damage caused by a product being installed wrong at the factory. We did not know that it was installed wrong until we had an a/c technician come and look at it while we were in Branson Mo on vacation this spring. 

Thanks for your help!

Mike Canon, 205 Garden Street, Mineral Point Wi 53565
[protected]
email : [protected]@yahoo.com

We have had nothing but issues from a shady dealership (doctored the value to get the bank to approve the loan), to gas leaks and over heating batteries. We have had nonstop plumbing issues. We couldn't find replacement parts and had to buy a whole new faucet. We had soft floors that the dealership told us were normal. We paid $5000 for an extended warranty that the dealership won't honor. We had our entire RV flood when it rained because 17! seals were not tightened. We lost the use of it for 5 months. Our grey water tank never gives an accurate reading, the seals on our windows stuck to the windows when opening, our bathroom plumbing broke and caused a flood, ... On this Memorial trip alone we have spent two days fixing the kitchen faucet, the shower hose broke, we can't get hot water, the regulator cracked causing a severe gas leak, AND a battery was boiling. My 2 & 5 year old daughters were sleeping inside when I smelled the battery overheating. This review would be a lot different if the gas leak or the battery had caused an explosion. Luckily we were camping with a couple mechanics an electrician and an engineer or my entire family could have been killed. To say the least I am very displeased with the quality of workmanship.

The very first time we used the sleeper sofa in the living room, something snapped, and my guest fell thru a pocket in the mattress the size of an oven. There was an indentation about 3 feet across. Upon inspection the black 3" packing strap that gives support had broken. Yes, the kind of packing straps like UPS uses on their boxes.
I called our dealer in Detroit Lakes, MN. They said that they would order parts. Months go by, I call, I stop in... nope, no parts yet.
This goes on for TWO YEARS. Keep in mind...in the mean time, our guests sleep on the living room floor. This is a $50, 000 dollar deluxe Sierra. We didn't squabble about price. We paid cash. We are good customers.
Having lost our patience with the (no) service manager, my husband and I stopped into the dealership and spoke with the general manager last fall. He assured us that he would get the sleeper fixed for us by spring.
I told him that the last straw was when we had company from out of state, and they slept on the floor!
So, now it's spring. We called. Still waiting on parts. Huh? I literally came unglued. A few days later, we went to our lake lot where the camper resides, and it appears that someone (not the service people, but the SALESMAN) has been there. The apon skirt on the exterior slide is crushed because whoever operated the slide forgot to move the table stored for winter next to it. I check the sleeper, and instead of three 3" straps, there are now abou ten 1/2" straps. And... the area that had sunken (the last 20" had none). So... it's still a sink hole on the mattress...
We called to see who had been here, tell them that they damaged the exterior of the slide, the sleeper STILL IS NOT FIXED, and still nothing...another month later.
My guests tonight are sleeping on the FLOOR. It's nearing THREE YEARS of the run -around. I'm so angry I could scream at this point. What about my warranty?
You know, this dealership has a selection of furniture replacements that you can order on their showroom floor -to purchase. So, clearly it's possible to order an independent purchase of furniture. Tell me... WHY a couldn't this dealer have ordered us a new sleeper right off the bat? Why couldn't they have taken one from their display? Why couldn't, and why won't they stand behind their product? It comes with a FULL WARRANTY! I want a sleeper sofa that WE CAN USE! Not a broken, half a**ed repaired piece.
Another thing... the master bedroom bedspread was defective. When we got the camper, the seam was open exposing the lining. Once again, their (no) service manager said he'd order a new one. One year, two year (and by then, the color scheme was no longer available. But, he ordered us one after that 2 year wait. But, , , , it was the wrong size. And now with another 9 months passed I'm sure he feels he's put "enough" effort into it... we will never have the beautiful master bedroom we bought. It's very disheartening, and disappointing. I have a mismatched master bedroom. The flawed spread is at my home in a paper bag.
It's so darned infuriating. This is a once in a lifetime purchase for us. And, yes they've fixed the small stuff. To think... we chose this deluxe model for the extra bedroom and the sleeper sofa for guests... our family won't stay here... most of them don't want to sleep on the floor.
I hesitate to write this... because they are nice people. But, are they really? If they were nice people they would put themselves in our shoes. We have this really great destination trailor that no one can stay with us... disgusting. The whole purpose of purchasing THIS trailor was to have the opportunity of having friends and family. We could have gotten by with a $14, 000 trailor with one bed.
The sleeper also has sloppy cuts in the upholstery around the metal brackets. Yes, they've taken photos, and once again the (no) service manager is taking care of it. He can look in his records and assure me that he has it documented. Arghhh.

Please...please...please... what can I do? I want the warranty that came with this purchase to be honored.

I'm really sick and tired of complaining and nothing being done. For as long as we have waited, I almost wish that they'd have looked me in the eye the very first visit and said, "hey lady, you ain't gonna get that sleeper fixed, not ever, Cuz we just ain't gonna do it for ya...get your blow up mattress out and store in in that broken piece of furniture Cuz yer gonna be needing it... and that spread in your master? Dig out that old quilt, and get used to it Cuz your bedroom ain't ever gonna look like the model you looked at"
It would have saved me the years of headache and disappointment.
I will never recommend these birds to ANY ONE... and I sure as heck will never purchase as much as toilet paper from them.
Wolds RV
DETROIT LAKES, MN

Nice salesman. Terrible service.

2015 32 bit. We just had to pay $455 to get are camper fixed. The kitchen slide pinched and broke the wires to kitchen. At the time we had the camper 14 months. We have forever warranty. The bracket holding the wires was not installed correctly. This is the second winter it was in the shop at Alpin Haus. Last winter is was there because other items were not installed right. We just want forest river to pay us back for. What was there factory's fault.

We purchased a NEW 2017 Cherokee 274RK Travel Trailer in March . Once it rained, we had water running in from the skylight. We found that the skylight was cracked in 2 places. We returned the trailer to the business we purchased it from to have the skylight replaces. We are now informed that your company has switched vendors and the new vendor does not have the correct size skylight for our trailer. There is a warranty on the trailer and we expect your company to stand behind this warranty and get us a replacement. If that does not happen, we will be contacting the Better Business Bureau. Please respond to this problem immediately.

Vanity sink in bathroom laminate cut too short around sink completly lifted looks awfull reported to forest river in June was told that was a problem been trying to get replaced since June 2016 now Feb. talked to the diesel division they don't seem to be able to order parts (new vanity top)
Or for the replacement cushion.
Don't by there product if you want any customer support for warrenty work they don't help have called emailed no help warrenty out in April stilll not fixed. Had a Winnebago before bad choice switching Co.
no one can or knows or care about fixed Motorhome.

family brought a 2015 surveyor travel trailer and it is the worst then we have ever brought so please be where I would not take one free they sell you things without telling you all the small information that you should know I purchase it from DeMontrond in Texas City Texas it has been in the shop at least 7 times and now I said have to promise with it the paint is faded on the top of it and they do not even have a way of fixing or repairing it I hope I can find a way to sue them

Our names are: harry a & mary f mills
2249 camden ave
Manasquan, nj [protected]-882-2237

We purchased a forest river travel trailer at the rv show in hershey pa in september 0f 2015. We bought a rockwood mini lite 2503s. I questioned the softness and sagging of the couch but they assured me they were all like that. When we picked it up at the camping world rv sales in hanover pa I questioned it again and was told the same thing. We have been on a few trips and this last one the couch is totally shot. I hoping with the reputation of forest river you will resolve this problem. We have been camping since 1970 and have owned about 10 different campers and this probably being our last we choice a forest river. We belong to a camping club and they all told us go with you.
I also have to mention the mattress in this unit in very thin and my sheets will not stay on i'm very surprised by this I was very pleased to know it is a full size queen because my husband and I are both tall but disappointed as it is so thin. If you can help me with this problem I would be thrilled.

Thanks so much for your attention to my problems. Hoping to hear from you very soon.

Sincerely,
Mary f mills

I just experienced a customer service warranty problem with Forest Rivers and there dealers.
It appears they can not agree on the cost of repairs
when it come to dealer warranty repairs and how much
the dealers get paid under warranty work.
Dealers now want the customer to pay the up front cost first, if they even agree to help you,
for any warranty repair work if you did not buy the
RV from a local dealer in your home area.
Buyer be aware this is a industry wide problem if you need warranty work fast, your stuck.
Forest Rivers will tell you this is not a problem
but oh yes it is and you will find it out if you
need help on warranty and its not the dealer you bought the unit from.
This will be my last Forest Rivers unit I ever buy because of this senseless policy the dealers are using and I was a long time Forest Rivers RV buyer
around 12 different units, I, m done with them.

Last week-end I attended an RV Fair and subsequently purchased an 2011 RV. I had told the salesman I wanted a new 2014 RV, but was just shopping. He took us for a trial drive in a 2014 RV and I really liked it. We parked and he said just leave it running until we come back to it. When we came back, it was gone. He said do you remember which one it was? With a lot full of RVs we just picked one that looked like it. He took us inside and it was pretty much the same EXCEPT the sign said 2011. We asked him about this and he said it didn't have the right equipment to be sold before. When we got to the paper work, it came out that it had 55000 miles on it. It didn't even have an operators manual. We did a 'walk-through' but who can remember everything said about how everything works? Also when asked about the oil, it was changed a year ago. I said I don't know much about RVs but shouldn't that have been changed? He said I had to get the managers okay. Now when I call them no one is in and all I can get is voice mail, but no one calls me back.

Buyer beware! We bought a brand new 2011 Wildcat 32foot fifthwheel in May of 2011 and we had nothing but problems with it and still have current problems with it. Where do I start? Well...the tankless water heater would fluctuate badly and we would get scalded in the shower, that was ripped out and a normal water heater put in. Our heater and A/C unit is to small of a unit for our size trailer and is not powerful enough to get the heat flow or the A/C flow back to the bathroom or our bedroom. The Dealer tried to get it replaced with the right sized unit and Forest River refused to replace it, currently we still sweat in the summer and freeze in the winter (screw you Forest River). Our draws break all the time, our propane bottle regulators go out all the time, our emergency window would unlatch while travelling and bang around the whole time, that had to be replaced. The shower leaked all over the floor until we fixed it, the toilet leaked until we fixed it, the dining room table was not secured to the floor and had to beg Forest River to provide straps so we could strap it down. One of our stove burners no longer lights, the fan located underneath our frig runs when you turn on lights, the bed has storage underneath it and the hydraulic lift jacks were too small for the weight of the bed and it fell on me when I was getting a blanket. Really?. When does it stop? Forest River knows they are making a c****y product and should be held accountable. This is my 3rd Rv in 12 years and I have never been SO disgusted with a purchase. I have convinced several friends not to buy a Forest River product. Buyers remorse big time!

We have a 2004 Lexington Class B + and have been trying for several months to get a replacement tag light cover with no results. We have gone to Camping World and they have not been able to get it either. I have tried on other occasions to get information and parts from them and never received an answer to phone calls or emails. I will never buy another unit from them as they do not value their customers or stand behind their products.

In March of 2011 I Purchased a 2011 BRAND NEW Forest River Shasta 26QBTB pull behind trailer. After more than one year of dealer and manufacturer attempts to resolve a slide leak, and more than 30 other issues including a sinking floor tub, defective hot water heater, and permanent water damage they have not resolved my issues and will not refund my money or even provide me compensation, an equal replacement, or anything other, I am warning others about Forest River".

Shasta requested ONE final attempt for repair as a result of the demand letter I sent them two months ago|. However, they did not effectively repair the RV and sent it back to me with partical board exposed to the elements on the outer wall of the slide, a (still) leaking slide, water stains/damage where the water leaked into the main flooring from the leak, and a drill hole in the sunlight, among other things?. The repair process of their original manufacturing defects (despite their "industry accepted tests that are proven effective") are still ineffective despite best attempts and displayed patience for repairs/. I "explicitly detailed my expectations" in writing as requested by Shasta to diagnose a recurring issue that could not previously be identified through "Shasta's industry best practices" while the RV was at their manufacturing plants!. Their ONE final attempt was a concerted effort in failure'.

The original dealer stated that our RV was "the first unit off the production line" and "no wonder why you are having so many issues"?. The dealer attempted to contact Shasta more than 3 times about the slide leak (among the laundry list of other repairs);. Shasta has denied effective solutions to the customer and the dealer and wasted a lot of people's time, money, energy, and undue stress. Shasta has used up it's "one last attempt" at fixing EVERYTHING that is wrong with my RV.

They can have the title and RV as I want nothing to do with their defective product. Nor would I consider trading it in or selling it privately due to the irreparable defects. My values will not allow me knowingly to pass on these problems to someone else or I would have done that from the beginning despite the financial impact. I would have been able to recuperate 75-80% of my losses that way, which would have been acceptable at the time.

My next step is contacting local media outlets, provide online feedback on blogs, websites, and anywhere else I can WARN and PROTECT a potential buyer.

This has gone on far too long. I have been very agreeable on proposed repairs by Shasta and its representative(s). I have been as patient possible with Shasta considering the significant issues I have had with their defective product. I am not a "problem customer." I was sold a problem product. This RV is a lemon. I paid cash for a defective unit and they will not/have not repaired manufacturing defects. Further, I have provided Shasta one too many chances to correct the defects of the brand new RV and as a result I have lost more than 50 days of my RV being in the shop, and countless time trying to correct this situation.

I will certainly remain vocal to friends, neighbors, strangers, and anyone else I can warn as to this event for years to come.

I purchased a 2006, 19ft Forest River Wildwood Travel trailer and nothing in it has worked since the day after I took delivery. The AC/DC converter melted down on the second day and of course the closest dealer to me is a few hundred miles away. Next the plumbing turned out to be pure junk. No water pressure, the water pump burned up becuase they never tightened the fittings and it just ran and ran. I'm on my fourth pump now and it works for about a week and then stops again. I hate everything about Forect River and their products.

It is quite clear this company has absolutely NO QUALITY STANDARDS of any kind. I am going to file a lawsuit and I suggest all the other forest river owners join me so we can get rid of this terrible manufacturer.

We bought a broken rv from forest river model greywolf they told us to take it to a dealer and get it fixed the dealer told it was junk it needed to go back to the factory factory had it brought back to them about two thousand miles away one slide was broken and crooked the floor underneath was tore up because they forgot to put the wheels under the slider the couch was installed on stacks of two by fours there was big weld drips on the frame and lot's of other small issues and something they found that i have no idea what it was that they had to repair the other slide was also crooked and now they want me to go get it at my exspence and my time which i have no time to go two thousand miles in each direction. we beg for our money back the dealer told us now it's used can't take it back to bad you bought it. forest rivers manger also refused to give money back.

I own a 2006 Flagstaff 831BHSS TT and noticed significant leak in the back within 4 months. I was told by the dealer - RON HOOVER RV in Houston - that the roof was covered under warranty, but NOT THE SEALS! I went on a several weeks spree contacting the top people in Forest River in July-August 2006 and was never even offered any help - just that's the way it is they all said. ON A BRAND NEW TRAILER! I have gone 4 years now with constant leaks, no matter how many times I have repaired and how much money I have paid. The back outer shell has now developed a crack and the trailer is probably worthless now. I have gotten absolutely no offer of assistance by HOOVER or Forest River for my lemon. Also, I have had to buy a replacement water heater ($850) since it went out a few months after the warranty on it expired, faucet busted, new axle (insurance paid for most), water line leaks, etc. I vowed 4 years ago that I would make sure the world knows and NOT TO BUY A FOREST RIVER! Besides the crack on the outside, the wood cabinets and roof, ceiling, and walls are completely water damaged and the trailer always smells musty, despite doing everything I knew how to stop it.